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Subject: Re: move_generation + hash

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:45:41 05/30/00

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On May 30, 2000 at 01:34:27, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On May 30, 2000 at 00:25:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 28, 2000 at 19:44:05, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On May 28, 2000 at 10:02:05, Georg v. Zimmermann wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>today I realized that the program I'm toying around with does in its search()
>>>>
>>>>1.) generate all moves
>>>>2.) order the moves and put hash move if available to 1st position
>>>>3.) do the recursive search
>>>>
>>>>I thought that I could increase its speed by testing the hash move first and
>>>>only if not >= beta do the move generation and the rest.
>>>>
>>>>From my tests it shows that it sticks with the hash-move about 50% of the time.
>>>>Should this number be higher ?
>>>>
>>>>I was very dissapointed when I didn't notice any speedup after my changes. What
>>>>speedup should I expect ? Something like 0.5-1% or more like 1ply ?
>>>
>>>You can forget about 1 ply. Your program needs to go ~4x faster for it to search
>>>1 ply deeper. Which means that your move generator must be taking ~400% of the
>>>execution time, which is clearly impossible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>His effective branching factor might be different than yours.  Mine is at about
>>3.0...  I have seen some higher and some a bit lower.
>
>If you make a program 20% faster, it will not search 1 ply deeper, regardless of
>your branching factor. (Unless your branching factor is < 1, which doesn't seem
>likely.)
>
>>
>>>
>>>Here's what you have to consider when calculating your speedup:
>>>
>>>1) How many moves you get from the hash table. I just ran some random position
>>>and got a 1.75% "hit rate."
>>
>>That sounds horribly low.  I'd be concerned of something serious if it drops
>
>I don't hash during quiescence and my hash table was pretty small when I ran
>that test. That may explain the low rate. But my point was that the expected
>speedup of the optimization should be small. Even if you have a hit rate of 50%,
>the speedup is still only 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.2 = 5%.
>
>-Tom


I don't hash in quiescence either.  I haven't in many years.
However, I am not sure that your 5% number is right or wrong, buet 5% is
something I would definitely go for if I knew it was laying around.  You get
enough of those, and you can get into big savings.  I've found very few large
savings (25%) in Crafty over the years.  But I have found many dozens of 1-3%
improvements, and an occasional 5-10% boost as well.

I think the key to improving a program, once it plays legally, is to develop
a methodology to carefully profile the code, find the hot spots, and then find
ways to speed up those hot spots.  But all the while paying _careful_ attention
to the overall node counts on a wide range of test positions.  A 1% speedup is
of no use at all if you introduce an error that happens once every billion
nodes.  I can search that many nodes in 15 minutes.  I can't stand errors that
frequently.  I have what would probably be called a "zero-tolerance for errors"
in Crafty.  If I make a change that should only make it faster or slower, then
the node counts must remain constant. If they don't I debug until I find out why
and fix it.



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