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Subject: Re: move_generation + hash

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:56:48 05/30/00

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On May 30, 2000 at 12:50:33, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On May 30, 2000 at 10:45:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 30, 2000 at 01:34:27, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On May 30, 2000 at 00:25:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 28, 2000 at 19:44:05, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 28, 2000 at 10:02:05, Georg v. Zimmermann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>today I realized that the program I'm toying around with does in its search()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.) generate all moves
>>>>>>2.) order the moves and put hash move if available to 1st position
>>>>>>3.) do the recursive search
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I thought that I could increase its speed by testing the hash move first and
>>>>>>only if not >= beta do the move generation and the rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From my tests it shows that it sticks with the hash-move about 50% of the time.
>>>>>>Should this number be higher ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was very dissapointed when I didn't notice any speedup after my changes. What
>>>>>>speedup should I expect ? Something like 0.5-1% or more like 1ply ?
>>>>>
>>>>>You can forget about 1 ply. Your program needs to go ~4x faster for it to search
>>>>>1 ply deeper. Which means that your move generator must be taking ~400% of the
>>>>>execution time, which is clearly impossible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>His effective branching factor might be different than yours.  Mine is at about
>>>>3.0...  I have seen some higher and some a bit lower.
>>>
>>>If you make a program 20% faster, it will not search 1 ply deeper, regardless of
>>>your branching factor. (Unless your branching factor is < 1, which doesn't seem
>>>likely.)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's what you have to consider when calculating your speedup:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) How many moves you get from the hash table. I just ran some random position
>>>>>and got a 1.75% "hit rate."
>>>>
>>>>That sounds horribly low.  I'd be concerned of something serious if it drops
>>>
>>>I don't hash during quiescence and my hash table was pretty small when I ran
>>>that test. That may explain the low rate. But my point was that the expected
>>>speedup of the optimization should be small. Even if you have a hit rate of 50%,
>>>the speedup is still only 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.2 = 5%.
>>>
>>>-Tom
>>
>>
>>I don't hash in quiescence either.  I haven't in many years.
>>However, I am not sure that your 5% number is right or wrong, buet 5% is
>>something I would definitely go for if I knew it was laying around.  You get
>>enough of those, and you can get into big savings.  I've found very few large
>>savings (25%) in Crafty over the years.  But I have found many dozens of 1-3%
>>improvements, and an occasional 5-10% boost as well.
>>
>>I think the key to improving a program, once it plays legally, is to develop
>>a methodology to carefully profile the code, find the hot spots, and then find
>>ways to speed up those hot spots.  But all the while paying _careful_ attention
>>to the overall node counts on a wide range of test positions.  A 1% speedup is
>>of no use at all if you introduce an error that happens once every billion
>>nodes.  I can search that many nodes in 15 minutes.  I can't stand errors that
>>frequently.  I have what would probably be called a "zero-tolerance for errors"
>>in Crafty.  If I make a change that should only make it faster or slower, then
>>the node counts must remain constant. If they don't I debug until I find out why
>>and fix it.
>
>If you're not hashing during quiescence, how are you getting hit rates around
>40%? That's more than my percentage of non-quiescent nodes, period...
>
>-Tom

I would assume that my q-search is not as big as yours, at present.  I posted
the numbers I got on the BK test.  You can eyeball my code to see how I do the
hashing.

the bigger numbers come in simpler positions where there is almost no q-search
at all.




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