Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: move_generation + hash

Author: Tom Kerrigan

Date: 17:45:17 05/30/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 30, 2000 at 20:28:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 30, 2000 at 18:58:11, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>
>>On May 30, 2000 at 18:01:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 30, 2000 at 17:57:30, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 30, 2000 at 17:24:29, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 30, 2000 at 14:54:28, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I assume that when Bob says he expects a 25% hit rate, he means 25% of the >times that the hash table is probed, and not 25% of the nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>Probably yes, so did I...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Which means that more work needs to be done to estimate the speedup from the >optimization that started this thread, i.e., the equation becomes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>speedup = (% hit rate) * (% hash probes) * (% hash move cutoffs) * (% of time
>>>>>>spent doing move generation)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Throwing in some extremely optimal numbers, the result is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>0.5 * 0.2 * 0.5 * 0.2 = 1%
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So I think the best you can hope for is 1%. Seems like too much work for too
>>>>>>little, to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you do the same optimization for killer moves, how much can you hope for
>>>>>then ?
>>>>>
>>>>>This would be (killer move cutoffs) * (time doing move generation), right ?
>>>>>
>>>>>The second term is pretty high for me, so I'm interested to know what the
>>>>>first one will be. Anybody got any numbers on this ?
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>GCP
>>>>
>>>>Depends on how you generate moves...
>>>>
>>>>Captures should be ordered higher than killers, so you have to generate
>>>>captures. For me, if you're generating captures, you might as well generate all
>>>>the moves while you're at it.
>>>>
>>>>Don't forget, there's also some overhead in bypassing move generation. You have
>>>>to keep track of which "stage" of move generation you're in. You have to make
>>>>sure you don't search the same move twice. And you have to test the legality of
>>>>hash and killer moves. Basically, this is overhead on an improvement that's
>>>>already small. Not worth it, in my opinion...
>>>>
>>>>-Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>It definitely works for me...
>>
>>What improvement does it give you?
>>-Tom
>
>
>That is complex.  So how about this as a starting point:  When I added killer
>moves in crafty, I already had the other stuff present (history, winning
>captures, hash move, etc.).  I added killers and at the same time, started using
>the more complex "NextMove()" function I now use.  Which behaves like this:
>
>1.  suggest hash move without a move generation, but a direct validation that
>the move is legal to avoid massive corruption.
>
>2.  suggest winning captures, and on the first winning capture, make a special
>case to cull the hash move, should it have been a capture.
>
>3. suggest killer moves (2) before generating non-capture moves.  I don't allow
>captures to become killers so there is no chance of duplication there, but I do
>make sure that the hash move also is not a killer move to avoid replication.
>
>4. suggest up to four history moves.  The first one is handled separately to
>screen the entire move list against moves already played so that they are not
>tried again.
>
>5.  rest of the moves in order in the list.
>
>this speeded me up by about 10%.  When I looked at the size of the tree, it had
>not changed, implying killers were not making the search more efficient.  What
>was happening was that I was avoiding move generations.
>
>If you have a specific experiment you want to suggest, I can cobble the code to
>do whatever you suggest and run the test...

Can you just generate all the moves at the same time and then order them?
-Tom



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.