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Subject: Re: Would Hiarcs 7.32 Win in a Match against....

Author: José Antônio Fabiano Mendes

Date: 13:54:47 06/02/00

Go up one level in this thread


On June 01, 2000 at 03:48:12, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On May 31, 2000 at 02:29:21, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On May 31, 2000 at 01:40:08, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On May 30, 2000 at 21:43:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 30, 2000 at 17:54:45, Joshua Lee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 30, 2000 at 17:02:40, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 30, 2000 at 16:51:08, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I just noticed on ssdf rating list details, that hiarcs7.32 on 450mhz. beat
>>>>>>>fritz 3 on 90mhz. 18.5 to 3.5. That fritz was very similar to the exact thing
>>>>>>>which beat deep blue at the time.ah!!!! so what do you say to that?
>>>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I say that it is less than 90% and I read that Deep thought(not deep blue) got
>>>>>>more than 90% against Fritz3(p90)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do not know if to believe to the last claim because they did not do the games
>>>>>>public and I have no idea if the games are tournament time control or faster
>>>>>>time control(I am interested only in tournament time control games).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>How about Hiarcs on my Athlon 800 Clocked to 880Mhz?
>>>>>I think if it is still taking Hiarcs  on Pos 3 of the LCTII test 49minutes to
>>>>>solve it at 11ply  and Deep Thought of 1989 which played Kasparov was searching
>>>>>2M nps and 12Ply in 40/2 then Most computers would in fact win a game or two but
>>>>>not a match. also Deep Thought of 1988 at 750,000 nodes per second would be
>>>>>better but i have looked at games of the pre 1990 computers and can only say
>>>>>that Hiarcs has to be better than some of those computers because it can spot
>>>>>the mistakes right off the bat and wouldn't play the loosing move in the first
>>>>>place. I'll find the game.... other than that my reasoning was just that the
>>>>>opening books caused those programs to lose.
>>>>>
>>>>>maybe everyone interested should have their respective software analyze older
>>>>>games like that of Cray Blitz and Hitech.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I did this for the 1986 WCCC event (Cray Blitz only). I was amazed that Crafty
>>>>did not find one single tactical blunder, even though Crafty of today is
>>>>searching far faster than CB of 1986 (we were doing about 160K nodes per second
>>>>back then on an 8 cpu YMP I believe).  I used "annotate" for each game played.
>>>>
>>>>Chris whittington raised the question of a really ugly looking move Bh7 against
>>>>Bobby I think.  And he criticized it endlessly.  And then we discovered that it
>>>>was forced and CSTal also liked the _same_ move.  :)
>>>>
>>>>That says a lot about the robustness of a good 1986 search on pretty good 1986
>>>>hardware.  It is easy to reproduce the test since crafty will annotate a
>>>>collection of PGN game scores (in a single file) at one batch run,
>>>>automatically.
>>>>
>>>>I think you will find that the tactical mistakes of the 1986 supercomputers are
>>>>_very_ hard to find with today's PC machines.
>>>
>>>Tactical mistakes of deep thought are not hard to find with today PC's program.
>>>The last one was against Fritz3 but I found more mistakes in some games that
>>>they lost or did not win.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I can add that I can see tactical mistake of Deeper blue in the game that it
>>lost
>>
>>[D]4r3/8/2p2PPk/1p1r4/pP2p1R1/P1B5/2P2K2/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Deeper blue played Rd1 instead of Rf5+
>>
>>Rf5+ is losing but the logfiles of deeper blue showed that it did not see the
>>line Rf5+ Ke3(chessmaster(ss=10) can see it after 82 seconds and
>>
>>Rd5f5 kf2e2 Re8g8 pg6g7 Kh6h5 rg4g1 Rf5f3 bc3b2 Kh5h6 rg1g4 Rf3f5 bb2d4 Pe4e3
>>ke2e3P Rf5f1 ke3e4 Rf1f6p was the main line with evaluation of -210 before Rf5+
>>failed low with evaluation of -260
>>
>>The final main line is a bad main line:
>>
>>Rd5d1 pf6f7 Rd1f1 kf2f1R Kh6h5 pf7e8R/q Kh5g4r with evaluation of -180 when
>>white has a simple mate after these stupid moves.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Interesting indeed...
>
>The log-file in question:
>
>#[Rf5](-210)[Rf5](-210) -210v T=73
>Rd5f5 kf2e2 Re8g8 pg6g7 Kh6h5 rg4g1 Rf5f3 bc3b2 Kh5h6 rg1g4 Rf3f5 bb2d4 Pe4e3
>ke2e3P Rf5f1 ke3e4 Rf1f6p
>
>11(6) #[Rf5](-260)v[find a move]#########[TIMEOUT][et3  1295 sec]
>
>#[Rg8](-183)[Rd1](-180) -180  T=204
>Rd5d1 pf6f7 Rd1f1 kf2f1R Kh6h5 pf7e8R/q Kh5g4r
>
>Analysis of Rf5+ (using Analysis Include):
>
>00:00:06  9.00  -1.70   1..Rf5+ 2.Ke1 e3 3.f7 Rd8 4.Ke2
>                        Kh5 5.g7 Rxf7 6.g8=Q  (1)
>
>00:00:23 10.00  -1.73   1..Rf5+ 2.Ke3 Rf3 3.Ke2 Rxc3 4.f7
>                        Rd8 5.g7 Rxc2 6.Ke1 Rc1 7.Kf2 e3
>                        8.Kg2 Rc2 9.Kh3 e2 10.g8=Q  (6)
>
>00:00:58 11.00  -1.73   1..Rf5+ 2.Ke3 Rf3 3.Ke2 Rxc3 4.f7
>                        Rd8 5.g7 Rxc2 6.Ke1 Rc1 7.Kf2 e3
>                        8.Kg2 Rc2 9.Kh3  (23)
>
>00:02:41 12.00  -2.21   1..Rf5+ 2.Ke2 Rg8 3.g7 Kh5 4.Rg1
>
>00:06:24 13.00  -2.37   1..Rf5+ 2.Ke3 Rf3 3.Ke2 Rg8 4.Bd2
>                        Kh5 5.Rg5 Kh4 6.f7 Rg7 7.Re5 Kg3
>                        8.Be1 Kg2  (161)
>
>So a constantly dropping score for Rf5+
>
>Then Analysis of Rd1 (using Analysis Include):
>
>00:00:04  9.00  -3.27   1..Rd1 2.f7 Rf8 3.Ke3 Rdd8 4.Bf6
>                        Ra8 5.Be7 Kg7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8  (1)
>
>00:00:11 10.00  -3.48   1..Rd1 2.g7 Rd5 3.Ke2 Rf5 4.Rh4
>                        Kg6 5.Rh8 Rg8 6.Rxg8 Rf3  (4)
>
>00:00:31 11.00  -3.71   1..Rd1 2.g7 Rd5 3.Ke2 Rf5 4.Rh4
>                        Kg6 5.Rh8 Rg8 6.Rxg8 Rxf6  (11)
>
>00:01:25 12.00  -4.03   1..Rd1 2.g7 Rd5 3.Ke2 Rd7 4.g8=Q
>                        Rxg8  (31)
>
>00:03:49 13.00  -4.20   1..Rd1 2.g7 Rd5 3.Ke2 Rd7 4.g8=Q
>                        Rxg8  (85)
>
>Rf5+ looks clearly better and the score of -1.80 for Rd1 given by
>DB looks ridiculous and I don't understand it either.
>
>Ed

http://207.158.205.122/Products/Magazine/cbm58mm.htm  [see "Suicide?"]



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