Author: blass uri
Date: 14:51:35 06/05/00
Go up one level in this thread
On June 05, 2000 at 11:46:41, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 05, 2000 at 10:31:32, blass uri wrote: > >>On June 05, 2000 at 09:09:51, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On June 05, 2000 at 08:22:44, Steffen Jakob wrote: >>> >>>>Hi! >>>> >>>>This is a position from an interesting standard game MissSilicon - Hossa, played >>>>today at ICC: >>>> >>>>[D]5k2/7K/6P1/1p3p2/1P5P/1Pb5/8/8 w >>> >>> >>> >>>I think there are times where you have to depend on your search. Normally >>>this is won by black, because black has a bishop to stop white's pawns. I >>>suspect that if you try to write special-purpose code to catch this, it will >>>end up being wrong more than it is right. >> >>I agree that writing a special code to catch this case and many other cases is >>not trivial but I believe that it is not impossible. >> >> This is a precise tempo-counting >>>issue that just barely lets the 'loser' win. >>> >>>I'd likely just take the loss and run. It takes Crafty 9 plies (0 seconds >>>of course) to see that the bishop is not winning. I don't see an obvious >>>evaluation trick to make this show up faster... >> >>Hiarcs7.32 needs only 5 plies to see that white is winning because of >>extensions. >> >>Uri > > >That doesn't matter. How _long_ does Hiarcs need? It doesn't matter whether >you need 5 plies or 9 plies. What matters is "how many seconds"??? Because it >is easy to extend a lot and pick this up quicker (shallower plies) but take >longer overall to find the problem. Here is what I get, for reference: > > nss depth time score variation (1) >starting thread 1 >starting thread 2 >starting thread 3 > 1 0.00 -5.90 1. h5 > 1-> 0.00 -5.90 1. h56 > 2 0.00 -- 1. h5 > 2 0.00 -6.77 1. h5 Bxb4 > 2 0.00 -6.52 1. Kh6 f4 > 2-> 0.01 -6.52 1. Kh6 f4 > 3 0.01 -6.22 1. Kh6 f4 2. h5 > 3 0.01 ++ 1. h5!! > 3 0.01 -5.40 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 > 3-> 0.01 -5.40 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 > 4 0.02 -5.14 1. h5 f4 2. h6 Bxb4 > 4-> 0.02 -5.14 1. h5 f4 2. h6 Bxb4 > 5 0.23 ++ 1. h5!! > 5 0.24 -3.95 1. h5 f4 2. h6 f3 3. g7+ Bxg7 4. hxg7+ > 5-> 0.24 -3.95 1. h5 f4 2. h6 f3 3. g7+ Bxg7 4. hxg7+ > 6 0.25 -4.26 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 > 6-> 0.26 -4.26 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 > 7 0.27 -4.26 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 4. > Kh7 > 7-> 0.27 -4.26 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 4. > Kh7 > 8 0.28 -4.43 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 4. > g7+ Kg8 5. Kg5 > 8-> 0.29 -4.43 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 f4 4. > g7+ Kg8 5. Kg5 > 9 0.38 ++ 1. h5!! > 9 0.49 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 Kg7 5. Kxf5 > 9-> 0.49 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 Kg7 5. Kxf5 > 10 0.50 3.68 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kg7 > 10-> 0.51 3.68 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kg7 > 11 0.52 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kg7 6. Kf5 > 11-> 0.53 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kg7 6. Kf5 > 12 0.55 3.88 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kh8 6. Ke5 Kg7 > (2) 12-> 0.58 3.88 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kh8 6. Ke5 Kg7 > 13 0.60 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kh8 6. Ke5 Kg7 7. Kf5 > (2) 13-> 0.63 3.78 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kh8 6. Ke5 Kg7 7. Kf5 > 14 0.66 ++ 1. h5!! > 14 6.49 4.19 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kf8 6. Kg5 Ke7 7. g7 > Kf7 8. Kh6 > 14-> 6.56 4.19 1. h5 Bg7 2. h6 Bxh6 3. Kxh6 Kg8 4. > Kg5 f4 5. Kxf4 Kf8 6. Kg5 Ke7 7. g7 > Kf7 8. Kh6 > > >Crafty finds the right move from depth=1. After .38 seconds it realizes that >white is winning. I can crank up the passed pawn extension and see this >quicker in terms of depth, but the time will probably be slower overall. IE >don't be mislead by 'shallow depth finding'. I think depth doesn't matter at >all. It is _time_. I do not know the exact time but it needs clearly less than 1 second on p200MMX to see evaluation of +4.88 Uri
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