Author: blass uri
Date: 02:14:36 06/13/00
Go up one level in this thread
On June 12, 2000 at 23:45:33, Hans Gerber wrote: >On June 12, 2000 at 17:33:57, Joachim Denzler wrote: > >>> >>> >>>This was not the point. Remember that the winning version in 1999 was something >>>above version 3. So I understand that it is version 4. >>> >>>But this is neither the question. the exact number of the version was not the >>>main point for my question. The main question was why a Champion (of June 1999!) >>>is sold for 7 US$. >>> >>>Then Meyer-Kahlen came and confirmed that it is not closely one of the actual >>>versions. For me this is a very important statement. Perhaps it was too >>>difficult to understand. The 7- dollar- program is presented as the Championship >>>version (!) of the program by S. M.-K.. That is the point. No matter if you >>>think it's not 3 or M.-K. confirms it is not one of the (good) complete >>>versions, M.-K. did not play with a slim version of his program to win the >>>championship. >> >>I followed this discussion and was first puzzled by the price of the program, >>then more puzzled by the answer of Mr. Mayer-Kahlen, and most puzzled >>by the description of the box that looks pretty much like the box I got as I >>bought Shredder 4 from ICD. Since I am one of the nox-experts that have been >>mentioned below it would be very difficult for me to decide whether or not I got >>the true version 4 of Shredder for the 100$, or something like a Shredder 3.x >>version (at least I have the endgame CD's, and much more. "This should be enough >>for 100$. Do you really expect to have also Shredder 4 in it?" - just kidding). >> >>If there is really made no clear distinction between the different version of a >>program this would be one reason not to buy this program any longer. How can I >>make sure that I do not get an older version that has been on stock for a while? >> >>> >>>The superficiality of such discussions is telling. My last debate was about the >>>Deep Blue match and who was to blame for the bad climate between the two >>>parties. If you isolate parts of a question you might succeed in finding quick >>>answers but you can not find the truth. In a way the impossibility to find the >>>truth allows a strong verdict against a certain party. If you are familiar with >>>science and its reasoning this is all but totally new information. >>> >>>In our actual debate the point is that Stefan Meyer-Kahlen is responsible (since >>>his name is figuring on the box and CD with the name of hcc) for a situation >>>where his "championship (!) version" is sold for 7 dollars and he confirms >>>without hesitation that the program is (of course) _not_ one of the complete >>>good versions... In science we call it a contradiction. In science you can not >>>simply produce contradictions without hurting your good name. Now the selling of >> >>This is exactly the problem that I also have right now! Perhaps the next step >>would be that we read here: "You have to buy Shredder directly from Millenium >>2000 - do you really expect to get the latest version from ICD". Again, this is >>of course overdrawn ;-) >> >>>a product is not science at all, but it still throws a bad light on you if you >>>try to hide your responsibility for a market strategy (to omit to qualify the >>>technique with the justified verdict) and run away with the money. >>> >>>Must I repeat that it is written on the box that this is the championship >>>version that was playing on a "normal" PC? >>> >>>Of course the expert knows that this can not be true because all the endgame CDs >>>are not in the box. Of course this, of course that. >>> >>> >>>Hans Gerber >>> >>> >> >>In this sense I fully agree with Hans Gerber and would like to see a more honest >>marketing strategy of Millenium (perhaps I live outside reality?!) >> >>Joachim Denzler > > >Outside the marketing reality perhaps. > >In the meantime I did install the program. > >First observations. > >1. The display looks very inviting. Similarities with the WIN version of GENIUS >are obvious. > >2. I could not find a cconcrete description of the engine. > >3. The help file with F1 is opening as a HTML. > >4. What a surprise! Right on the first page you can see a photo of Stefan >Meyer-Kahlen with his wife Anna, both holding a trophy in their hands. > >5. The text is not exactly telling that you have SHREDDER on your PC. This >"missing link" is mentioned but not openly outspoken. > >6. Let me describe the tricky method. Above of the page you read "World >Champion". Then the photo. Then the text. Again Stefan Meyer-Kahlen is mentioned >who has won the championship in June 1999 with his computerprogram SHREDDER. >There you have it. So, if you have here the 'World Champion', it is clear that >you "have" SHREDDER, since SHREDDER became World Champion in 1999. > >In reality you do not have SHREDDER, the one of Paderborn, because e.g. the >endgame CDs are not included. Still you can read that you hold in your hands the >winning program that ran on a "normal" PIII with 550 MHz. The method is the same >as above. If you are the owner of such a PC and you did install SHREDDER, excuse >me, the WORLD CHAMPION of course, then you play with the winning program of the >last championship. > >In reality you do not play with that program because of the missing endgames. > > >Conclusion > >The more the version of the here presented program differs from the "version" >(must be version 4) at Paderborn 1999, the more the text (on the box, on the CD >and in the files of the program) does not tell you the truth about itself. > >Question again, who is to believe? The Stefan Meyer-Kahlen of CCC or the Stefan >Meyer-Kahlen as one of the notified responsibles for the mentioned product? > >Important note. The whole theme does not go about really big money. The point is >the importance of a certain style, a hopefully scientific attitude as a >programmer and the moral of people in the chess business. > > > >Hans Gerber My opinion is that it is unfair to use the fact that shredder is the world champion to sell previous versions of shredder(shredder3 and previous versions). I do not want to blame stefan about it because I do not know if he is responsible for this behaviour. Uri
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