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Subject: Re: Fractional Iterative Deepening search

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 05:58:09 06/19/00

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On June 19, 2000 at 02:17:48, Oliver Roese wrote:

>On June 18, 2000 at 21:43:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2000 at 16:45:26, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 2000 at 16:05:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 2000 at 15:50:43, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>>In the discussion of the 'Scalable Search Test' thread with
>>>>>Ed Schroeder I mentioned that MTD(n,f) has the nice property
>>>>>of making a fail-high pretty constant over time. I.e. the
>>>>>search does not blow up as it does in a normal PVS searcher.
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately it seems that this does not help when moving
>>>>>up a ply...it even seems that the results of the MTD'ers
>>>>>are quite terrible.
>>>>>
>>>>>The following though occured to me, if MTD allows you to take
>>>>>small steps in the score plane, what about using fractional
>>>>>ply increments to take smaller steps in the depth plane?
>>>>>
>>>>>Many of the best programs have now switched to fractional extensions.
>>>>>Thus, fractional search depth must make sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>Iterative deepening is one of the most important improvements to AB
>>>>>search. Thus, it makes sense too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Still, the programs use whole ply's in their iterative deepening
>>>>>search. Why? It would make perfect sense to step in smaller increments
>>>>>too. I feel this can even give improvements in tactical situations,
>>>>>where the fractional extensions are triggered.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm interested if someone has ever done or tested this before. Did it
>>>>>work? What were the results?
>>>>>
>>>>>If you happen to have a program which uses fractional extensions, please
>>>>>try it, and let us know how it works out.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>GCP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I tried this a good while back, but never really liked what I was getting.  It
>>>>is certainly worth trying...  if you use fractional extensions.  If you don't,
>>>>it won't do a thing.
>>>
>>>I had an idea about this. If you kept track of how many extensions you did in
>>>the search, if you had an unusually high number of extensions the iteration
>>>before, you could search the next iteration to a lesser depth, e.g.
>>>next_depth = last_depth + k*(nodes/(nodes+extensions))
>>>where k is equal to or somewhat greater than 1.
>>
>>
>>Now your task is to test that.  Sounds at least worth some testing.
>>
>>:)
>
>Could you shortly give an idea, why this approach could be beneficial?!
>Lots of extensions indicate lots of stuff happening.
>Searching is designed to overcome tactical barriers. Why then
>_reduce_ the search depth?
>
>Thank you
>Oliver Roese


He wasn't saying _reduce_ the depth.  He was saying, instead, "increase it more
slowly".  In many positions, one more ply exposes a set of tactics that can make
the search blow up.  IE at depth=12, no extensions get triggered to speak of,
as those lines get pruned away by alpha/beta/  But at depth=13, suddenly you
see deep enough to set a score that prevents the extended lines from getting
scrapped quickly.  the 12 ply search might take 60 seconds to finish.  The 13
ply search might take 60 minutes.  A 12.5 ply search would be somewhere in
between.



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