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Subject: Re: Checks in qsearch

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:16:14 06/23/00

Go up one level in this thread


On June 23, 2000 at 14:27:32, Andrew Dados wrote:

>On June 23, 2000 at 02:06:27, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>On June 22, 2000 at 17:38:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On June 22, 2000 at 08:29:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 22, 2000 at 07:55:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 21, 2000 at 11:12:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 21, 2000 at 11:03:42, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I find that a lot of the games that my program loses, it loses because it
>>>>>>>doesn't search checking moves in qsearch.
>>>>>>>Anyway, how do people do that most effectively? I would like not to generate all
>>>>>>>moves in the qsearch (just the captures), but then I will miss the noncapturing
>>>>>>>checks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I did them in Cray Blitz, and in early versions of Crafty.  But I haven't
>>>>>>done checks in the q-search since just prior to the Jakarta WMCCC event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You can control them to an extent...  ie when you get to the q-search, you
>>>>>>can consider a check.  But if you look at a capture at the first ply or 2,
>>>>>>then there is little point in doing checks deeper in the q-search because the
>>>>>>'stand pat' will allow you to avoid the checks totally, earlier in the
>>>>>>tree.
>>>>>
>>>>>76% of all checks give a cutoff in DIEP in qsearch
>>>>>on average a check improves score with 2.9 pawns
>>>>
>>>>That is fine.  But if 76% of checks are giving cutoffs, you have a problem
>>>>somewhere else, because _most_ cutoffs should be produced by captures, not by
>>>>checks.
>>>
>>>That's pretty hard to measure in a realtime program and i disagree here.
>>>If you're in check, then you don't need to evaluate and have limited choice,
>>>so the number of nodes you cycles you waste when being in check is
>>>quite limited.
>>>
>>>3 out of 4 checks giving a cutoff in a position which wasn't a cut node
>>>without trying the check (otherwise beta pruning) is pretty good i think.
>>>
>>>I'm sure most don't get such a good cut rate.
>>
>>I don't see how this makes any sense.  Why would a check give a cutoff unless
>>it's a mate, a capture, or the subject of an eval function bonus?
>>
>>bruce
>
>[D]4k3/8/8/8/r7/8/6Q1/4K3 w - -
>
>We're in qsearch here. Qxc6+ Kxx QxR will give a cutoff, no?
>-Andrew-


So will an eval term that says KQ vs KR is an easy win if the queen isn't
lost.  But for every such tactic you find in the q-search, there are even
more you miss by not considering anything but checks and captures.  Why make
the q-search _bigger_ if it is already horribly inaccurate?



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