Author: Peter Kappler
Date: 14:02:22 07/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 17, 2000 at 16:09:09, Amir Ban wrote: >On July 17, 2000 at 07:22:41, Graham Laight wrote: > >>I'm afraid I still feel that Junior could have come out ahead (instead of >>level)in this tournament by beating Bareev and Khalifman - and possibly by not >>losing with such apparent ease to Kramnik. Continuing the game against Anand >>might possibly have gained an extra half point as well. >> >>I think that Amir has an aspiration to make his program demonstably better than >>Deep Blue (this certainly comes across in his interviews published on the >>Chessbase Website coverage of Dortmund (www.chessbase.com) before the Kramnik >>game). If so, as a (hopefully!) impartial member of the viewing public, I'm >>afraid to say that I've yet to be convinced. >> >>As evidence, I point firstly to the games against Bareev and Khalifman. On both >>occasions when Deep Blue '97 gained an advantage over Gary Kasparov (who's a >>better player than anyone at Dortmund was), it parlayed that advantage into >>victory - whilst Deep Junior twice failed conspicuously to "slam in the lamb". >> >>I would also point to the game against Khalifman. Here we see Deep Junior lose >>to a combination of blocked centre and king attack - classic anti computer >>methods which have both been well known for a long time. They work because, in >>this case, nothing short of truly massive search depth is going to help you to >>make the correct moves. >> >>However, for both king attack and blocked centre, Deep Blue '97 demonstrated >>that it's evaluation knowledge was able to adequately handle the challenge. >>Indeed, in game 2 in '97, Deep Blue not only handled the blocked centre, it >>turned it into a win! >> >>It took Deep Blue 2 attempts to beat Gary Kasparov, the world's best player - >>maybe another year of work will push Deep Junior to a position where it can try >>to win these tournaments, instead of settling for a middling position. >> >>But let's not be completely churlish - Dortmund 2000 was indeed a fantastic >>performance by Deep Junior - and a landmark in computer chess history, since >>here is both a computer and a program which one can buy in the shops! > >I disagree with most of this, but it's your opinion, and if experience teaches >us anything, it's useless to argue. > >For the record, I'm not trying to prove that I'm better than Deep Blue. I think >I've already shown this some time ago, and I'm not the only one who can say so >either. > >Looking at the (very few) games of DB, I don't see that it had either better >evaluation or deeper search than today's top programs. > >Amir I must say I'm skeptical, though I would have a good laugh if it were true. Are you aware of any positions from the 2nd Kasparov-DB match where Junior (or any other micro) plays a clearly better move than DB? Not that this would conclusively prove a thing - it would just be interesting. --Peter
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