Author: Amir Ban
Date: 14:44:49 07/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 17, 2000 at 17:33:22, Peter Kappler wrote: >On July 17, 2000 at 17:26:36, blass uri wrote: > >>On July 17, 2000 at 17:07:35, Peter Kappler wrote: >> >>>On July 17, 2000 at 17:02:22, Peter Kappler wrote: >>> >>>>On July 17, 2000 at 16:09:09, Amir Ban wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 07:22:41, Graham Laight wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I'm afraid I still feel that Junior could have come out ahead (instead of >>>>>>level)in this tournament by beating Bareev and Khalifman - and possibly by not >>>>>>losing with such apparent ease to Kramnik. Continuing the game against Anand >>>>>>might possibly have gained an extra half point as well. >>>>>> >>>>>>I think that Amir has an aspiration to make his program demonstably better than >>>>>>Deep Blue (this certainly comes across in his interviews published on the >>>>>>Chessbase Website coverage of Dortmund (www.chessbase.com) before the Kramnik >>>>>>game). If so, as a (hopefully!) impartial member of the viewing public, I'm >>>>>>afraid to say that I've yet to be convinced. >>>>>> >>>>>>As evidence, I point firstly to the games against Bareev and Khalifman. On both >>>>>>occasions when Deep Blue '97 gained an advantage over Gary Kasparov (who's a >>>>>>better player than anyone at Dortmund was), it parlayed that advantage into >>>>>>victory - whilst Deep Junior twice failed conspicuously to "slam in the lamb". >>>>>> >>>>>>I would also point to the game against Khalifman. Here we see Deep Junior lose >>>>>>to a combination of blocked centre and king attack - classic anti computer >>>>>>methods which have both been well known for a long time. They work because, in >>>>>>this case, nothing short of truly massive search depth is going to help you to >>>>>>make the correct moves. >>>>>> >>>>>>However, for both king attack and blocked centre, Deep Blue '97 demonstrated >>>>>>that it's evaluation knowledge was able to adequately handle the challenge. >>>>>>Indeed, in game 2 in '97, Deep Blue not only handled the blocked centre, it >>>>>>turned it into a win! >>>>>> >>>>>>It took Deep Blue 2 attempts to beat Gary Kasparov, the world's best player - >>>>>>maybe another year of work will push Deep Junior to a position where it can try >>>>>>to win these tournaments, instead of settling for a middling position. >>>>>> >>>>>>But let's not be completely churlish - Dortmund 2000 was indeed a fantastic >>>>>>performance by Deep Junior - and a landmark in computer chess history, since >>>>>>here is both a computer and a program which one can buy in the shops! >>>>> >>>>>I disagree with most of this, but it's your opinion, and if experience teaches >>>>>us anything, it's useless to argue. >>>>> >>>>>For the record, I'm not trying to prove that I'm better than Deep Blue. I think >>>>>I've already shown this some time ago, and I'm not the only one who can say so >>>>>either. >>>>> >>>>>Looking at the (very few) games of DB, I don't see that it had either better >>>>>evaluation or deeper search than today's top programs. >>>>> >>>>>Amir >>>> >>>> >>>>I must say I'm skeptical, though I would have a good laugh if it were true. >>>> >>>>Are you aware of any positions from the 2nd Kasparov-DB match where Junior (or >>>>any other micro) plays a clearly better move than DB? >>> >>>I should clarify that it must play the move in 2-3 minutes, or whatever amount >>>of time Deep Blue spent on the move. >>> >>>--Peter >> >>I disagree >> >>I think that Amir meant that assuming the same number of nodes per seconds he is >>better than deeper blue. > > >I'm pretty sure he's not assuming equal nps, but I'll wait for him to clarify. > >--Peter You are right. Amir
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