Author: stuart taylor
Date: 15:54:01 07/17/00
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On July 17, 2000 at 11:32:41, Graham Laight wrote: >On July 17, 2000 at 09:44:57, stuart taylor wrote: > >>To Dr. Hyatt, So how far do you beleive it is possible to go without tremendous >>speed? If software was maximised the most possible, could 1ghz. ever overtake >>D.B.? or maybe 2 ghz? What is the potential that still hasn't been realised? >>S.Taylor > >If I may offer my thoughts on this issue: > >Human players only look at a few nodes per second, so computers ought to be able >to play GM chess with the speed of a machine you can buy cheaply at the local >computer factory. > >A while ago, I proposed a form of diagram to compare what was happening with >knowledge vs speed in the search space. Unfortunately, the use of these diagrams >hasn't caught on in CCC. > >Basically, having knowledge allows you to see further into the future in certain >aspects of the game. > >If you were searching (say) 10 deep, full width, with a low knowledge eval >function, your knowledge map would look like this. > > > ply |-------------------------------------------------------------| > | | >25 | | > | | >20 | | > | | >15 | | > | | >10 |#############################################################| > |#############################################################| >5 |#############################################################| > |#############################################################| > |-------------------------------------------------------------| > > Breadth of knowledge > > >You'd probably miss any traps that were sprung more than 10 ply (5 moves) ahead. > >On the other hand, if you were relying on knowledge only, there would be good >overall coverage, but gaps all over the place: > > > ply |-------------------------------------------------------------| > | # # # # # # | >25 | # # # # # # #| > | # # # # # # # | >20 | # # # # # # # # | > | # # # # # # # # # # # | >15 | # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # | > | # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # | >10 |# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ##| > |# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #| >5 |## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #| > |#############################################################| > |-------------------------------------------------------------| > > Breadth of knowledge > >Here, you're OK if, and only if, the knowledge you used is relevant well into >the future of the game. > >The typical chess computer's knowledge map typically looks like this: > > > ply |-------------------------------------------------------------| > | # | >25 | # ### | > | # #### # | >20 | ## ###### ### | > | #### ######## ##### | >15 | ###### ########### ####### | > | ########### ############### ########## | >10 |#############################################################| > |#############################################################| >5 |#############################################################| > |#############################################################| > |-------------------------------------------------------------| > > Breadth of knowledge > >Showing full searches to 10 ply, with "extensions" after that. However, as you >can see, there are massive gaps in the knowledge - almost nothing is known about >how the game will look in 25 plys. > >This reflects the prevailing doctrine in computer chess that search depth is >more important than knowledge. > >The problem is that chess programmers' have not yet succumbed to the inclination >to manage their knowledge methodically. In the past, I have suggested using >database APIs to store knowledge, so that the best knowledge for the current >situation can be managed, maintained, and retrieved just when it's needed. > >Anyway, I hope this contributes to the discussion of whether a current PC can >play at Deep Blue's level... > >-g Well, if that can be done,I would suggest it also, to put it mildly. If things can be stored and retreived at the right time, then perhaps everything can be done! Thanks! S.Taylor
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