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Subject: Re: program paradox: To make them better against people or other programs

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 16:02:31 07/17/00

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On July 17, 2000 at 18:29:55, Graham Laight wrote:

>On July 17, 2000 at 17:36:23, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2000 at 16:38:42, Jeroen Noomen wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>The Dutch championship and Dortmund have made one thing very clear: Computers
>>>still have no idea what to do in blocked positions and how to prevent or defend
>>>against a king's attack.
>>>
>>>IMO the situation is as follows, what I will call 'the big chess program
>>>paradox':
>>>
>>>1. I am programmer and wondering what to do about these
>>>   horrible king side attacks and blocked positions.
>>>
>>>2. I try a lot of extra knowledge and EUREKA, it works!
>>>
>>>3. Unfortunately there is a side effect: The NPS drops from
>>>   400 KNodes to 200 KNodes.
>>>
>>>This 'little' side effect makes me start thinking:
>>>
>>>4. If I make this program commercially available, it will
>>>   do bad against other programs. Why? Simple: I had 400 KNodes,
>>>   now I have only 200, so I am outsearched.
>>>
>>>5. If it scores bad against other programs, I get a very low
>>>   rating in Sweden and I score (probably) bad in tactical
>>>   positions.
>>>
>>>6. After this, all people reading magazines, visiting CCC and
>>>   playing computer programs will say: 'This is a bad program.
>>>   It scores bad, is slow and thus it is weak'.
>>>
>>>Conclusion: I, the programmer, will NOT do this. It's commercially
>>>not a good thing to do!
>>>
>>>And then I ask myself: Do I need more NPS versus humans? Is 400
>>>Knodes enough? Or do I fancy 4.000? What is the point against strong
>>>GM's to make it stronger in an aspect of the game (tactics) where it
>>>is already superior?
>>
>>All good points Jeroen well and clear formulated.
>>
>>>Dear programmers, Christophe, Amir, Bob, Ed, Stefan and all others:
>>>I am very interested in your opinion about this matter!
>>
>>Well.. last year I started a special topic on the Rebel Home Page called
>>Chess in 2010 handling this topic. Did you miss it? :-)
>>
>>http://www.rebel.nl/ches2010.htm
>
>Although I have to say that the opinion poll is conspicuously biased (IMHO), in
>general it is an excellent, thought provoking page - well worth a visit!

Can you elaborate a bit what is "conspicuously biased" on the questions
of the poll?

Ed


>-g
>
>>Just in case.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>>Jeroen
>>>
>>>
>>>PS  You want to know why I started loving Rebel and I still love it?
>>>Because it is far slower than the top programs, but KNOWS more about
>>>positional chess!



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