Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:08:06 07/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 17, 2000 at 17:02:22, Peter Kappler wrote: >On July 17, 2000 at 16:09:09, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On July 17, 2000 at 07:22:41, Graham Laight wrote: >> >>>I'm afraid I still feel that Junior could have come out ahead (instead of >>>level)in this tournament by beating Bareev and Khalifman - and possibly by not >>>losing with such apparent ease to Kramnik. Continuing the game against Anand >>>might possibly have gained an extra half point as well. >>> >>>I think that Amir has an aspiration to make his program demonstably better than >>>Deep Blue (this certainly comes across in his interviews published on the >>>Chessbase Website coverage of Dortmund (www.chessbase.com) before the Kramnik >>>game). If so, as a (hopefully!) impartial member of the viewing public, I'm >>>afraid to say that I've yet to be convinced. >>> >>>As evidence, I point firstly to the games against Bareev and Khalifman. On both >>>occasions when Deep Blue '97 gained an advantage over Gary Kasparov (who's a >>>better player than anyone at Dortmund was), it parlayed that advantage into >>>victory - whilst Deep Junior twice failed conspicuously to "slam in the lamb". >>> >>>I would also point to the game against Khalifman. Here we see Deep Junior lose >>>to a combination of blocked centre and king attack - classic anti computer >>>methods which have both been well known for a long time. They work because, in >>>this case, nothing short of truly massive search depth is going to help you to >>>make the correct moves. >>> >>>However, for both king attack and blocked centre, Deep Blue '97 demonstrated >>>that it's evaluation knowledge was able to adequately handle the challenge. >>>Indeed, in game 2 in '97, Deep Blue not only handled the blocked centre, it >>>turned it into a win! >>> >>>It took Deep Blue 2 attempts to beat Gary Kasparov, the world's best player - >>>maybe another year of work will push Deep Junior to a position where it can try >>>to win these tournaments, instead of settling for a middling position. >>> >>>But let's not be completely churlish - Dortmund 2000 was indeed a fantastic >>>performance by Deep Junior - and a landmark in computer chess history, since >>>here is both a computer and a program which one can buy in the shops! >> >>I disagree with most of this, but it's your opinion, and if experience teaches >>us anything, it's useless to argue. >> >>For the record, I'm not trying to prove that I'm better than Deep Blue. I think >>I've already shown this some time ago, and I'm not the only one who can say so >>either. >> >>Looking at the (very few) games of DB, I don't see that it had either better >>evaluation or deeper search than today's top programs. >> >>Amir > > >I must say I'm skeptical, though I would have a good laugh if it were true. > >Are you aware of any positions from the 2nd Kasparov-DB match where Junior (or >any other micro) plays a clearly better move than DB? Not that this would >conclusively prove a thing - it would just be interesting. > >--Peter Or we can take a few of the positions from the DB log files and try them on "top programs". I'm not aware of any "top program" that can do 16-18 plies in the middlegame...
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