Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Now's the time for Amir to Talk...:-)

Author: Chessfun

Date: 19:23:41 07/17/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 17, 2000 at 20:24:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 17, 2000 at 18:02:43, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2000 at 16:25:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 17, 2000 at 14:47:24, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 13:40:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>27. Rxb7 Rd7 28. Rxd7
>>>>>>
>>>>>>{White can play 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Qd5 Qa1+ 30. Kf2 Rf8 31. Bf4 and black looks
>>>>>>bad, although the result is still unclear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Leko offered here a draw. I chose to continue because after this move Junior's
>>>>>>eval switched sign to positive. After the game Leko said that a GM as black
>>>>>>would be looking for ways to draw, not to win}
>>>>>
>>>>>Your eval was positive here?  I looked at this a while and concluded black is
>>>>>probably losing.  I sicced crafty on it for a while and it failed low at every
>>>>>iteration.  After 13 it was -1.61...  at 14 it was -2.10, at 15 -2.25, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>>what did DJ see to produce a + eval?  I am searching the position after 28. Bxf7
>>>>>which is what Crafty had for the best move for white by far...
>>>>
>>>>You are looking in the wrong position.
>>>>
>>>>Leko offered a draw when he played 28.Rxd7 so you should look in the position
>>>>after 28.Rxd7
>>>>
>>>>I think that 28.Bxf7 is winning.
>>>
>>>
>I was reading everything he said.  He mentioned Junior was expecting the Bxf7+
>line but was (I think) nowhere near my -2 score...
>


I think what he said was White can play Bxf7 and then posted a line.
I am not sure Deep expected Bxf7 at the time Rxd7 was played.
I expected your line to continue from Amir's 29....Qa1+ as that
was what he had posted.

>After Bxf7, it had this at depth=13:
>               13->   2:12  -1.61   28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 h4
>                                    31. Bd6 Qe8 32. c5 a4 33. c6 a3 34.
>                                    Bxa3 Qe3+ 35. Kh2
>
>It failed low at 14 to this:
>
>               14     2:18     --   28. ... Rxf7
>               14     3:01  -2.09   28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 Qe8 31.
>                                    Bd6 Kh7 32. Qxh5+ Kg8 33. Qd5 Kh7 34. Bxf8
>                                    Qe3+ 35. Kf1 Qc1+ 36. Kf2 Qxc2+ 37.
>                                    Ke3 Rxf8 <HT>

At 31....Kh7 Deep prefers Qe1+ with the following.
Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6

Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:

31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 16   00:00:43  11721kN
31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 17   00:01:58  32111kN
31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 f5 35.Rb1 Qf2 36.Bxf8 Qf4+ 37.Kh1 Kxf8
38.Qe6
  ±  (1.20)   Depth: 18   00:04:01  62900kN

(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)

At the end of the line you posted Deep scores it as:
Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:

38.Re7 Kh6 39.Qe4 Qc1+ 40.Kf2 Qc2+ 41.Kg3 f5 42.Qd4 f4+ 43.Kh2 Rf6
  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 13   00:00:58  21499kN
38.Re7 Kh6 39.g4 Qc1+ 40.Ke2 Qc2+ 41.Kf3 g6 42.Qe4 Qd1+ 43.Kg3 Qg1+ 44.Qg2 Qc5
45.Qd2+ g5 46.Qe1
  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 14   00:02:38  56604kN

(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)


As I said earlier, I am not sure that black can survive I was
just a little surprized to see a +2.00 score after Bxf7.

I had looked at this with Deep earlier.
What about a line with 29......Qa1. which is what Deep prefers.

30. Kf2 Ref8 31. Bf4 Amirs line then Qc3 32. Bd6 Qd2+ 33. Kg1 prefered by
Crafty Kf3 expected by Deep.

carrying on from Crafty 33. Kg1 Qe3+ 34. Kh2 h4 35. C5

Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p2Q4/2P4p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Crafty 17.11:
35.c3 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.Rxf7 Rxf7 38.Qxa5 Kh7 39.Qc5 Qf1
  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:09  1413kN
35.c5
  ±  (1.09)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:09  1531kN
35.c5
  +-  (1.48)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:19  3476kN
35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7
  +-  (3.93)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:37  6736kN
35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
42.c4
  +-  (4.13)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:44  8070kN
35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxg2 Qf4+ 44.Kg1
  +-  (4.11)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:58  10839kN
35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxh4+ Qxh4 44.Bxh4 g5 45.Bxg5
  +-  (4.17)   Depth: 13/33   00:01:25  16262kN

(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)

Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p1PQ4/7p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.c7 Qa1
  ±  (1.02)   Depth: 12   00:00:04  1248kN
35...f5 36.Re7
  ±  (1.32)   Depth: 15   00:00:33  9324kN
35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
42.Bd8 a3 43.Bxh4 a2
  +-  (2.89)   Depth: 17   00:02:30  44876kN

(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)

So it may well be that the Qa1 line is worse than the Ref8 line.

Thanks.

>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.