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Subject: Re: ponder_on ponder_off comparision

Author: Mark Young

Date: 01:51:41 07/18/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 17, 2000 at 16:12:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 17, 2000 at 14:50:22, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2000 at 11:18:18, Volker Pittlik wrote:
>>
>>>I've played two little tournaments.
>>>
>>>Programs: AnMon506, Arasanx_53, Amyf_000420, Bringer16, Comet_B21, Crafty1710,
>>>EXchess314, Gromit_30, LambChop_710, Phalanx22, SOS_991103, TCB0045
>>>
>>>round robin, 20 games each match, time control 60+2
>>>System: 2*520 MHz Celeron, NT4.0
>>>Setting: ~32 MB hash each program, learning on, books coming with the program,
>>>all 4- and some 5-piece TBs
>>>All games can be found in my gamesArchie:
>>>http://members.xoom.com/VolkerPi/gamesArchive/archive.htm
>>>
>>>Ponder=on
>>>
>>>No. Name          Win Draw Loss Unf.  Score Games       %    SOP
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  1 Crafty1710   +140  =39  -41   *0  159.5   220   72.5% 5820.0
>>>  2 AnMon506     +120  =36  -64   *0  138.0   220   62.7% 5470.0
>>>  3 Amyf_000420  +111  =35  -74   *0  128.5   220   58.4% 4855.0
>>>  4 Gromit_30    +106  =36  -78   *0  124.0   220   56.4% 6285.0
>>>  5 TCB0045      +107  =34  -79   *0  124.0   220   56.4% 4520.0
>>>  6 Comet_B21     +98  =42  -80   *0  119.0   220   54.1% 6080.0
>>>  7 Phalanx22     +93  =38  -89   *0  112.0   220   50.9% 7140.0
>>>  8 SOS_991103    +92  =36  -92   *0  110.0   220   50.0% 6925.0
>>>  9 Bringer16     +85  =36  -99   *0  103.0   220   46.8% 5140.0
>>> 10 EXchess314    +49  =45 -126   *0   71.5   220   32.5% 5140.0
>>> 11 Arasanx_53    +48  =46 -126   *0   71.0   220   32.3% 3860.0
>>> 12 LambChop_710  +43  =33 -144   *0   59.5   220   27.0% 4765.0
>>>Total Games:    1320
>>>White Wins:      596 (45.2%)
>>>Black Wins:      496 (37.6%)
>>>Draws:           228 (17.3%)
>>>Unfinished:        0 (0.0%)
>>>
>>>
>>>Ponder=off
>>>
>>>No. Name          Win Draw Loss Unf.  Score Games       %    SOP
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  1 Crafty1710   +158  =36  -26   *0  176.0   220   80.0% 6105.0
>>>  2 Gromit_30    +110  =42  -68   *0  131.0   220   59.5% 6460.0
>>>  3 Amyf_000420  +106  =46  -68   *0  129.0   220   58.6% 4520.0
>>>  4 AnMon506     +110  =37  -73   *0  128.5   220   58.4% 5475.0
>>>  5 TCB0045      +100  =48  -72   *0  124.0   220   56.4% 4365.0
>>>  6 Comet_B21     +94  =49  -77   *0  118.5   220   53.9% 6275.0
>>>  7 Phalanx22     +96  =43  -81   *0  117.5   220   53.4% 7275.0
>>>  8 SOS_991103    +96  =35  -89   *0  113.5   220   51.6% 6910.0
>>>  9 Bringer16     +64  =43 -113   *0   85.5   220   38.9% 4945.0
>>> 10 Arasanx_53    +69  =33 -118   *0   85.5   220   38.9% 3460.0
>>> 11 EXchess314    +42  =30 -148   *0   57.0   220   25.9% 5500.0
>>> 12 LambChop_710  +36  =36 -148   *0   54.0   220   24.5% 4710.0
>>>Total Games:    1320
>>>White Wins:      564 (42.7%)
>>>Black Wins:      517 (39.2%)
>>>Draws:           239 (18.1%)
>>>Unfinished:        0 (0.0%)
>>>
>>>Conclusion
>>>
>>>The results of both tournaments are very similar. Tournaments with ponder=off
>>>and ponder=on seem to give comparable results.
>>>
>>>Comments appreciated
>>>
>>>Volker Pittlik
>>
>>
>>This is truly excellent stuff Volker !!.
>>I note Crafty scored 10% approx worse with ponder=on.
>>
>>Was this a surprize to you?.
>>What did you think prior to running the tests:
>>ponder=on is a definate benefit to some programs?.
>>
>>This naturally could be a result of a few things:
>>Number of games.
>>Other programs also being "tuned" for ponder=on.
>>
>>But I still think your conclusion is the correct one.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
>The conclusion is that this is a random result.  If you play crafty vs the
>commercial programs, which are tactically stronger than most 'freeware'
>programs, crafty will find itself in more 'trouble'.  And _that_ will make
>the ponder=off problem I have explained show up.  If it doesn't get into any
>trouble in most games, this problem won't show up.

Never say die!! I know you are dead wrong here, as I have played the games as
well as others and the results show you dead wrong... I do however admire your
force of will on this subject.:)



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