Author: Amir Ban
Date: 02:04:53 07/18/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 17, 2000 at 22:23:41, Chessfun wrote:
>On July 17, 2000 at 20:24:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2000 at 18:02:43, Albert Silver wrote:
>>
>>>On July 17, 2000 at 16:25:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 14:47:24, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 13:40:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>>27. Rxb7 Rd7 28. Rxd7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>{White can play 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Qd5 Qa1+ 30. Kf2 Rf8 31. Bf4 and black looks
>>>>>>>bad, although the result is still unclear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Leko offered here a draw. I chose to continue because after this move Junior's
>>>>>>>eval switched sign to positive. After the game Leko said that a GM as black
>>>>>>>would be looking for ways to draw, not to win}
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your eval was positive here? I looked at this a while and concluded black is
>>>>>>probably losing. I sicced crafty on it for a while and it failed low at every
>>>>>>iteration. After 13 it was -1.61... at 14 it was -2.10, at 15 -2.25, etc...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>what did DJ see to produce a + eval? I am searching the position after 28. Bxf7
>>>>>>which is what Crafty had for the best move for white by far...
>>>>>
>>>>>You are looking in the wrong position.
>>>>>
>>>>>Leko offered a draw when he played 28.Rxd7 so you should look in the position
>>>>>after 28.Rxd7
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that 28.Bxf7 is winning.
>>>>
>>>>
>>I was reading everything he said. He mentioned Junior was expecting the Bxf7+
>>line but was (I think) nowhere near my -2 score...
>>
>
>
>I think what he said was White can play Bxf7 and then posted a line.
>I am not sure Deep expected Bxf7 at the time Rxd7 was played.
>I expected your line to continue from Amir's 29....Qa1+ as that
>was what he had posted.
>
>>After Bxf7, it had this at depth=13:
>> 13-> 2:12 -1.61 28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 h4
>> 31. Bd6 Qe8 32. c5 a4 33. c6 a3 34.
>> Bxa3 Qe3+ 35. Kh2
>>
>>It failed low at 14 to this:
>>
>> 14 2:18 -- 28. ... Rxf7
>> 14 3:01 -2.09 28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 Qe8 31.
>> Bd6 Kh7 32. Qxh5+ Kg8 33. Qd5 Kh7 34. Bxf8
>> Qe3+ 35. Kf1 Qc1+ 36. Kf2 Qxc2+ 37.
>> Ke3 Rxf8 <HT>
>
>At 31....Kh7 Deep prefers Qe1+ with the following.
>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>
>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>
>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
> ± (1.14) Depth: 16 00:00:43 11721kN
>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
> ± (1.14) Depth: 17 00:01:58 32111kN
>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 f5 35.Rb1 Qf2 36.Bxf8 Qf4+ 37.Kh1 Kxf8
>38.Qe6
> ± (1.20) Depth: 18 00:04:01 62900kN
>
>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>
>At the end of the line you posted Deep scores it as:
>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>
>38.Re7 Kh6 39.Qe4 Qc1+ 40.Kf2 Qc2+ 41.Kg3 f5 42.Qd4 f4+ 43.Kh2 Rf6
> ± (1.14) Depth: 13 00:00:58 21499kN
>38.Re7 Kh6 39.g4 Qc1+ 40.Ke2 Qc2+ 41.Kf3 g6 42.Qe4 Qd1+ 43.Kg3 Qg1+ 44.Qg2 Qc5
>45.Qd2+ g5 46.Qe1
> ± (1.14) Depth: 14 00:02:38 56604kN
>
>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>
>
>As I said earlier, I am not sure that black can survive I was
>just a little surprized to see a +2.00 score after Bxf7.
>
>I had looked at this with Deep earlier.
>What about a line with 29......Qa1. which is what Deep prefers.
>
>30. Kf2 Ref8 31. Bf4 Amirs line then Qc3 32. Bd6 Qd2+ 33. Kg1 prefered by
>Crafty Kf3 expected by Deep.
>
>carrying on from Crafty 33. Kg1 Qe3+ 34. Kh2 h4 35. C5
>
>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p2Q4/2P4p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Crafty 17.11:
>35.c3 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.Rxf7 Rxf7 38.Qxa5 Kh7 39.Qc5 Qf1
> ² (0.69) Depth: 9/22 00:00:09 1413kN
>35.c5
> ± (1.09) Depth: 9/22 00:00:09 1531kN
>35.c5
> +- (1.48) Depth: 10/24 00:00:19 3476kN
>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7
> +- (3.93) Depth: 10/24 00:00:37 6736kN
>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
>42.c4
> +- (4.13) Depth: 11/28 00:00:44 8070kN
>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
>42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxg2 Qf4+ 44.Kg1
> +- (4.11) Depth: 12/29 00:00:58 10839kN
>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
>42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxh4+ Qxh4 44.Bxh4 g5 45.Bxg5
> +- (4.17) Depth: 13/33 00:01:25 16262kN
>
>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>
>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p1PQ4/7p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.c7 Qa1
> ± (1.02) Depth: 12 00:00:04 1248kN
>35...f5 36.Re7
> ± (1.32) Depth: 15 00:00:33 9324kN
>35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
>42.Bd8 a3 43.Bxh4 a2
> +- (2.89) Depth: 17 00:02:30 44876kN
>
>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>
>So it may well be that the Qa1 line is worse than the Ref8 line.
>
>Thanks.
>
I may not have looked at this as deeply as you did, but I saw that after Qa1+
Junior proposes to continue with Qe1 (or Qc1, Qd1) and g5. This creates problems
for the white king because all white's pieces are tied to the attack and the
king must take care of itself. I don't know if it's enough to save the game, but
the position is unclear because I didn't find any clear winning plan for white.
Marching the c-pawn, for example, seems not to work because white doesn't have
the time for it.
Amir
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.