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Subject: Re: ponder_on ponder_off comparision

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:50:57 07/18/00

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On July 18, 2000 at 20:38:19, Peter Kappler wrote:

>On July 18, 2000 at 18:59:14, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>
>>On July 18, 2000 at 18:04:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>If everyone plays equally worse, then
>>>no harm is done.  But adding the extra degree of freedom is simply adding more
>>>noise to an already complex and unstable system of comparing chess engines.
>>
>>Just out of curiosity. What makes you think that all programs implement ponder
>>equally well? Are you suggesting that a system of comparing chess engines is
>>unstable when your programs isn't tuned for a certain parameter and stable when
>>it is?
>>
>>Best wishes...
>>Mogens
>
>
>Well said.  This is one issue where I really disagree with Bob.
>
>Imagine if the following statements were made by a programmer:
>
>1) "My program is designed to play against humans, not computers.  Do not play
>my program against computers - the results are meaningless."   (This was a
>favorite of Chris Whittington, author of CSTal).
>
>2) "My program isn't designed to play at fast time controls.  Matches played at
>a fast time control with my program have no scientific value."  (Another CW
>favorite)
>



that is a perfectly reasonable statement.  Things that work good at 14 plies
don't work so well at 8 plies (null move r=3 is one such thing).  If a
programmer does tune for long games, he might take a real beating at short
games.  And vice-versa.  No contradiction there at all...




>
>Now, two more extreme examples, just to make my point:
>
>3) "My program doesn't use endgame tablebases.  Do not match it against a
>program that uses tablebases - this would not be fair"

There is something to that.  Although the merit is debatable. The programmer
_could_ add EGTB support with a day's work...




>
>4) "My program doesn't ponder.  When playing it against other engines, make sure
>they aren't pondering, either."

You are missing the point.  The engine has a "natural mode".  Ponder=on.
I want to race your car, but it is too expensive so I am going to restrict
the fuel usage for both of our cars.  Fair?  maybe.  Will it give any idea
of how the race will go _without_ the fuel usage restriction?  absolutely not.
That is what this is all about.





>
>
>Anybody who releases a winboard-compatible engine should realize that it is
>going to be used in single-computer, non-ponder matches.  Knowing this, it seems
>a bit careless to ignore ponder=off time management.
>
>--Peter



Feel free to fix mine.  I don't have the time, nor the interest, since I
don't like racing with three wheels and consider it meaningless.




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