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Subject: Re: Computer haters?: No, you are realistic!

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 22:11:55 07/18/00

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On July 18, 2000 at 19:10:46, Amir Ban wrote:

>On July 18, 2000 at 14:05:46, Jeroen Noomen wrote:
>
>>On July 18, 2000 at 09:29:12, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>Amir,
>>
>>I agree that Junior earned its points honestly. I also agree with most you write
>>about these games. Still, you don't point out anything about the losses against
>>Kramnik and Piket. And that was exactly what I had in mind writing this thread.
>>Those two games showed exactly where chess computer programs still can be
>>improved. And HAVE to be improved, otherwise human GM's will have good chances
>>to get more points next year. And they will, because they have learnt.
>>
>>IMO if you solve most of the problems about king's attacks and closed positions,
>>then it will be almost impossible for the strongest GM's ta beat a computer.
>>Because in that case they have no advantage in any type of position anymore. But
>>in 2000 there is still not much to be done when a clever player manages to block
>>the position or start a slow attack: The programs do not know about this and
>>only human mistakes will save them.
>>
>>So the crucial question is: When will one of the leading programmer stop
>>searching for higher NPS, better searching techniques etc? When somebody will
>>REALLY tackle the 2 problems I mentioned? Because otherwise a computer can still
>>be beaten in 2010, running on 500 GHz. But as I already mentioned: This is the
>>computerchess paradox: NOBODY wants to sac NPS for more knowledge. And as long
>>as nobody wants to quit this 'rule', human GM's are still superior in knowledge
>>and understanding of the game.
>>
>>Jeroen
>>
>
>The speed vs. knowledge dilemma is a false one.

Wow.. now that's a statement.

>It may apply to Rebel and other programs, but it doesn't apply to
>Junior, where I have a framework to code evaluation stuff virtually
>for free.

Let me guess, pre-processing...?

Ed


>Speed is not the issue here, anyway, I agree. Fritz is often quicker in spotting
>the disaster, but that usually doesn't help it to avoid it. By most accounts,
>it's easier to drag Fritz than Junior into disaster-prone games.
>
>There are relatively simple ways to avoid blocked positions that are usually
>effective. One of them is assymetric evaluation (another is opening
>preparation). However I don't like artificial constructions in my program and I
>prefer to work on improving the evaluation to correct its weak points rather
>than evade them.
>
>Amir



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