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Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Graham Laight

Date: 07:22:20 07/19/00

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On July 19, 2000 at 10:10:04, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On July 19, 2000 at 08:40:12, Graham Laight wrote:
>
>>On July 18, 2000 at 18:17:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>We have several copies of Junior (and others) running on ICC, including more
>>>than one deep junior.  I have seen GM players achieve these kinds of attacks
>>>in very fast games...  Where the GM has little time to think and has to
>>>'intuit' everything.  And intuit they do...
>>>
>>>There are many positions search won't solve.  There are many positions that
>>>evaluation won't solve.  There is room for both in a chess engine, and _both_
>>>are important when playing players at the top level of chess...
>>
>>I don't think that this is proven.
>>
>>Programmers have historically found that they reap greater dividends with speed
>>than they do with knowledge, so they have mainly been going down the speed
>>route.
>
>There is a lot of truth in that.
>
>>However, if, instead of going down the speed route, the same amount of effort
>>and learning had gone into the knowledge route (e.g. learning how to build large
>>quantities of knowledge in a systematic and maintainable way), it may be that
>>knowledge based programs would now be just as strong as speed based programs.
>
>If speed (depth) wasn't such dominant we now would have had more intelligent
>programs searching 2-3 plies less deep. One might wonder which approach would
>be superior in hard elo. My guess is it is search.
>
>Ed

This might be true. On the other hand, it may be that, beyond a certain
threshold, adding knowledge increases elo at a faster rate - exponential growth
if you like.

Even if the growth in ELO as you added knowledge was only arithmetic (= steady)
rather than exponential, this would (if it were true...), be better than search,
where the growth in ELO rating is, roughly, logarithmic.

I think we know a great deal about the effects of adding speed and nodes per
second.

Unfortunately, I don't think we know so much about adding knowledge to the eval.

-g



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