Author: Albert Silver
Date: 21:01:40 07/19/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 19, 2000 at 18:32:28, Chessfun wrote:
>On July 18, 2000 at 05:04:53, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2000 at 22:23:41, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On July 17, 2000 at 20:24:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 18:02:43, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 16:25:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 14:47:24, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 17, 2000 at 13:40:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>>>>27. Rxb7 Rd7 28. Rxd7
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>{White can play 28. Bxf7+ Rxf7 29. Qd5 Qa1+ 30. Kf2 Rf8 31. Bf4 and black looks
>>>>>>>>>bad, although the result is still unclear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Leko offered here a draw. I chose to continue because after this move Junior's
>>>>>>>>>eval switched sign to positive. After the game Leko said that a GM as black
>>>>>>>>>would be looking for ways to draw, not to win}
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Your eval was positive here? I looked at this a while and concluded black is
>>>>>>>>probably losing. I sicced crafty on it for a while and it failed low at every
>>>>>>>>iteration. After 13 it was -1.61... at 14 it was -2.10, at 15 -2.25, etc...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>what did DJ see to produce a + eval? I am searching the position after 28. Bxf7
>>>>>>>>which is what Crafty had for the best move for white by far...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You are looking in the wrong position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Leko offered a draw when he played 28.Rxd7 so you should look in the position
>>>>>>>after 28.Rxd7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think that 28.Bxf7 is winning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>I was reading everything he said. He mentioned Junior was expecting the Bxf7+
>>>>line but was (I think) nowhere near my -2 score...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I think what he said was White can play Bxf7 and then posted a line.
>>>I am not sure Deep expected Bxf7 at the time Rxd7 was played.
>>>I expected your line to continue from Amir's 29....Qa1+ as that
>>>was what he had posted.
>>>
>>>>After Bxf7, it had this at depth=13:
>>>> 13-> 2:12 -1.61 28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 h4
>>>> 31. Bd6 Qe8 32. c5 a4 33. c6 a3 34.
>>>> Bxa3 Qe3+ 35. Kh2
>>>>
>>>>It failed low at 14 to this:
>>>>
>>>> 14 2:18 -- 28. ... Rxf7
>>>> 14 3:01 -2.09 28. ... Rxf7 29. Qd5 Rf8 30. Bf4 Qe8 31.
>>>> Bd6 Kh7 32. Qxh5+ Kg8 33. Qd5 Kh7 34. Bxf8
>>>> Qe3+ 35. Kf1 Qc1+ 36. Kf2 Qxc2+ 37.
>>>> Ke3 Rxf8 <HT>
>>>
>>>At 31....Kh7 Deep prefers Qe1+ with the following.
>>>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>>>
>>>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>>>
>>>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
>>> ± (1.14) Depth: 16 00:00:43 11721kN
>>>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 Qe3 35.Qc4
>>> ± (1.14) Depth: 17 00:01:58 32111kN
>>>31...Qe1+ 32.Kh2 h4 33.c5 a4 34.Qa2 f5 35.Rb1 Qf2 36.Bxf8 Qf4+ 37.Kh1 Kxf8
>>>38.Qe6
>>> ± (1.20) Depth: 18 00:04:01 62900kN
>>>
>>>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>>>
>>>At the end of the line you posted Deep scores it as:
>>>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>>>
>>>38.Re7 Kh6 39.Qe4 Qc1+ 40.Kf2 Qc2+ 41.Kg3 f5 42.Qd4 f4+ 43.Kh2 Rf6
>>> ± (1.14) Depth: 13 00:00:58 21499kN
>>>38.Re7 Kh6 39.g4 Qc1+ 40.Ke2 Qc2+ 41.Kf3 g6 42.Qe4 Qd1+ 43.Kg3 Qg1+ 44.Qg2 Qc5
>>>45.Qd2+ g5 46.Qe1
>>> ± (1.14) Depth: 14 00:02:38 56604kN
>>>
>>>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>>>
>>>
>>>As I said earlier, I am not sure that black can survive I was
>>>just a little surprized to see a +2.00 score after Bxf7.
>>>
>>>I had looked at this with Deep earlier.
>>>What about a line with 29......Qa1. which is what Deep prefers.
>>>
>>>30. Kf2 Ref8 31. Bf4 Amirs line then Qc3 32. Bd6 Qd2+ 33. Kg1 prefered by
>>>Crafty Kf3 expected by Deep.
>>>
>>>carrying on from Crafty 33. Kg1 Qe3+ 34. Kh2 h4 35. C5
>>>
>>>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>>>5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p2Q4/2P4p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Crafty 17.11:
>>>35.c3 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.Rxf7 Rxf7 38.Qxa5 Kh7 39.Qc5 Qf1
>>> ² (0.69) Depth: 9/22 00:00:09 1413kN
>>>35.c5
>>> ± (1.09) Depth: 9/22 00:00:09 1531kN
>>>35.c5
>>> +- (1.48) Depth: 10/24 00:00:19 3476kN
>>>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7
>>> +- (3.93) Depth: 10/24 00:00:37 6736kN
>>>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
>>>42.c4
>>> +- (4.13) Depth: 11/28 00:00:44 8070kN
>>>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
>>>42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxg2 Qf4+ 44.Kg1
>>> +- (4.11) Depth: 12/29 00:00:58 10839kN
>>>35.c5 f5 36.Re7 Qf2 37.c6 f4 38.c7 f3 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c8Q+ Kh7 41.Qg4 Rxe7
>>>42.Bxe7 fxg2 43.Qxh4+ Qxh4 44.Bxh4 g5 45.Bxg5
>>> +- (4.17) Depth: 13/33 00:01:25 16262kN
>>>
>>>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>>>
>>>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>>>5rk1/1R3rp1/3B1p2/p1PQ4/7p/3Pq2P/2P3PK/8 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Deep Junior 6.0:
>>>35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.c7 Qa1
>>> ± (1.02) Depth: 12 00:00:04 1248kN
>>>35...f5 36.Re7
>>> ± (1.32) Depth: 15 00:00:33 9324kN
>>>35...f5 36.Re7 Qg5 37.c6 Qf6 38.Rxf7 Qxf7 39.Qxf7+ Rxf7 40.c7 Rxc7 41.Bxc7 a4
>>>42.Bd8 a3 43.Bxh4 a2
>>> +- (2.89) Depth: 17 00:02:30 44876kN
>>>
>>>(Bird, Scarb 17.07.2000)
>>>
>>>So it may well be that the Qa1 line is worse than the Ref8 line.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>
>>I may not have looked at this as deeply as you did, but I saw that after Qa1+
>>Junior proposes to continue with Qe1 (or Qc1, Qd1) and g5. This creates problems
>>for the white king because all white's pieces are tied to the attack and the
>>king must take care of itself. I don't know if it's enough to save the game, but
>>the position is unclear because I didn't find any clear winning plan for white.
>>Marching the c-pawn, for example, seems not to work because white doesn't have
>>the time for it.
>>
>>Amir
It works.
>
>
>The 32....Qc3 line is pretty much the same as Qd1 as the result is
>33. Bd6 Qd2+. Unless the g5 is played at 32....g5 which is the move
>prefered by Junior 6a: I say that then it switches to Qd1. (see below)
>
>Qe1 cant be played after moving the rook to f8 then the white bishop
>moving to f4 as the white king is on f2.
>Qc1 cant be played as the white bishop is still on f4.
>
>Leko,P - DEEP JUNIOR 6
>5rk1/1R3rp1/5p2/p2Q3p/2P2B2/3P3P/2P2KP1/q7 b - - 0 1
>Analysis by Junior 6.1:
>31...g5 32.Bd6 Qc3 33.Bxf8 Qd2+ 34.Kf3 g4+ 35.hxg4 Qd1+ 36.Ke4 Qe2+ 37.Kd4 Qe5+
>38.Qxe5 fxe5+ 39.Kxe5 Rxb7 40.Ba3 hxg4
> ± (0.76) Depth: 16 00:04:22 82396kN
>31...Qd1!
> ² (0.50) Depth: 16 00:05:13 97896kN
>31...Qd1 32.Bd6 Qd2+ 33.Kf3 Qd1+ 34.Kg3 Qe1+ 35.Kh2 h4 36.c5 Qe3 37.c6
> ² (0.26) Depth: 16 00:06:34 122719kN
>
>
>However getting back to 33. Bd6 Qd2+. which as I said is the preffered
>move by Deep whether the queen is on c3 or d1. As also seen in the above
>line.
>
>As I said in the previous post:
>33. Kg1 prefered by Crafty Kf3 expected by Deep.
>33......Qe3+
>34. Kh2 h4
>35. c5 is the same as my last post line where black is toasted.
>
>The g5 move only comes in play as a possibility
>with the 33. Kf3 variation then:
>33......g5 34. Bxf8 g4+ 35. hxg Qd1+ 36. Ke4 Qe2+ 37. Kd4 Qe5+
>38. Qxe5 fxe5+ 39. Kxe5 Rxb7 40. Ba3 and black is likely lost.
>
>Still a great game !!
>
>Thanks.
I've been having having some fun with this too and thus far have it pretty much
down to a forced win for White. I'll post my findings tomorrow.
Albert Silver
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.