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Subject: Re: Dead Wrong!

Author: Peter Kappler

Date: 13:57:53 07/20/00

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On July 20, 2000 at 15:38:10, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On July 20, 2000 at 14:48:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:37:45, Chris Carson wrote:
>>
>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:27:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 13:26:34, Chris Carson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 10:33:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is an extrapolation based on simple fact.  For 10 years, deep thought
>>>>>>>accomplished that at ACM and WCCC events.  DB is about 100 times faster than
>>>>>>>Deep Thought.  Since deep thought played its last game about 5 years ago, I
>>>>>>>don't think you will find that machines have gotten 100 times faster over the
>>>>>>>past five years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Specint 2000 results:
>>>>>
>>>>>P3-700    =  310
>>>>>8x P3-700 = 2480
>>>>>
>>>>>10 years ago:
>>>>>
>>>>>486-33    =    5  (released may of 1990)
>>>>>
>>>>>5 years ago:
>>>>>
>>>>>P-90      =   25
>>>>>
>>>>>8x-700 is 2480/5= 496 times as fast as the 486-33 of 10 years ago.
>>>>>8x-700 is 2480/25= 99 times as fast as the P90 of 5 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>The math is pretty simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, did you actually do the math?
>>>>
>>>>Yes I did.  5 years ago today  I was running on a P5/133.  The 486 has
>>>>nothing to do with anything.
>>>>
>>>>You take the best PC in 1995, and compute the ratio of speed to the best PC
>>>>at present (1ghz).  Then see if _that_ is anywhere near a factor of 100.  Hint:
>>>>it isn't close.
>>>
>>>You have no data of chip test, DT, DTII, 96 DB or 97 DB against P-133's
>>>or P6-200.  Deep Junior runs on a 8x-700 machine not a 1GHZ single
>>>pocessor.   You quote data from 10 years ago, 10 years ago was 386/486.
>>>
>>>The only data you have that is close to what you claim is the 1995
>>>WCCC and DT (DB prototype) lost to Fritz on a P90.  I do not care what
>>>HW you had, there is no data on the P-133 or P6-200 for you to make any
>>>claims.
>>>
>>>I am still waiting for you to admit Ed is right!  You are only digging
>>>a Deeper Blue Hole to drown in.  :)
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>Chris Carson
>>
>>
>>What on earth are you rambling about?  I am not quoting _any_ single result
>>of DT vs a particular clock speed.
>>
>>Let's do this again:  please read carefully:
>>
>>from 1988 thru 1995 DT blew everyone away.  During that period, it lost two
>>games to microcomputers.  Out of a total of 50 computer chess games played at
>>ACM and WCCC events.
>>
>>Follow me so far?  So thru 1995 DT _dominated_ computer chess like it has
>>never been dominated before.
>>
>>Point 2:  After 1995, two new versions of the hardware were built, the last one
>>being over 100X faster than the DT hardware used in 1995.  Follow me so far?
>>
>>So since 1995, DB increased in speed by 100X, over the program that was
>>dominating computer chess prior to and including 1995.  Still with me?
>>
>>Now, how much has the speed of the microprocessor increased since the year
>>1995?  I say nowhere near 100x.  Still there?
>>
>>So we have a new program, DB2, that is 100x faster than the program that was
>>dominating computer chess in 1995.  What has happened in the PC hardware world
>>to close that gap?  Still there?
>>
>>DB 1995 to present:  speed increase 100X
>>
>>PC 1995 to present:  speed increase < 100X
>>
>>IE the gap has _widened_ between DB and the rest of us.  It has not _closed_
>>any...
>>
>>Now if you have trouble following that, then I don't know what else I can say
>>to make it any clearer.  DB dominated everyone thru 1995 and has widened the
>>speed differential between it and other programs, as of today.  The simple
>>conclusion is that the skill level gap has widened as well...
>>
>>Questions now???
>
>Yeah..... let's talk about chess! DT losing in Hong Kong 1995 and never
>trying to get the world champion champion title when they had the chance
>to proof that Hong Kong was a mistake. Perhaps it was no mistake?
>
>What about DT not seeing a simple tactics on tournament time control (!!)
>every chess program sees within 10 seconds?

Can you please post this position?  Thanks.


>
>What about the DB-GK position Uri posted recently DB being dead wrong
>not seeing a giant material loss?
>

I missed this one, too.  I'll go look for it.


--Peter






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