Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 14:58:05 07/20/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 20, 2000 at 17:33:18, KarinsDad wrote: >On July 20, 2000 at 15:23:56, Dann Corbit wrote: > >[snip] > >>For just the Dortmund result, Amir Ban is one of the greatest chess programmers >>of all time. To me, more impressive (because of the hardware difference) from a >>programming standpoint than the Deep Blue result (and -- I might ask -- Where >>are Hsu and Campbell in these lists? Probably ought to be in first place >>because the chess machine they assembled was [with apologies to Amir] the >>greatest chess machine ever assembled). Deep Junior on that 8 CPU machine is >>clearly -- without any logical question -- one of the two or three greatest >>chess machines assembled in the history of mankind. How can you say Amir is not >>impressive? > > >Ok, I'll say it. DJ was impressive, but Amir has not been shown to be one of the >greatest chess programmers of all time. Do not get me wrong, I think the result >was great. But, if the Dortmund field consisted of the Dortmund field plus a >half dozen other current chess programs on SMP systems, there might be a good >chance that DJ would not have been first amongst computers. > >I think there are several other candidate SMP programs (Fritz, Ferret, Crafty) >which may have done nearly as well or better, but we do not know for a fact. We >cannot, for example, compare comp/comp results. Fritz has SMP? First I have heard of it. >As you always say Dann, there is not enough data yet and to indicate that Amir >is one of the greatest chess programmers of all time due to this one sample and >due to him being the first in a tournament to get there (when there are so few >of them) does not do you credit. Where is your scientific objectivity now? You >claimed that there was not enough data to indicate that DJ is GM level, but turn >around and claim that it's programmer is one of the best ever(?). I am talking about achievement. Not science. To finish as strongly as DJ did in that pack of the world's very best chess players is nothing short of incredible. I don't share your optimism about the results of other programs (and possibly even the reproducability of this event). But as a landmark of computer chess, this outcome at Dortmund is #2 all time in world chess events [in my view]. There is a big difference between achievement and ability. Consider the WMCCC. The winner of that event really is a coin-toss. Yet, to win it is a considerable achievement, wouldn't you say? >I think Amir did a great job, I cannot stress that enough. But, his was the only >horse in the stable although other horses exist. None of them has ever run a race anything close to that. When they can gallop alongside Secretariat like DJ, I will applaud them just as loudly. Thus far, no program has come close. Those were the very best players in the world. >When DB played, it WAS the only horse in existence (at that level), Probably still is/was, but we probably won't ever find out. >and it did >it 3 years before DJ, and the programmers for it did not limit themselves to >just writing code (which is easy to do compared to designing hardware). I don't know that one discipline is easier than the other.
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