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Subject: Re: best chess programmers

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 11:47:18 07/21/00

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On July 21, 2000 at 14:34:39, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>On July 21, 2000 at 01:12:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>On July 21, 2000 at 00:58:29, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>My point is that giving away your source code doesn't necessarily make you a
>>>better programmer. Saying that Bob Hyatt is one of the top 5 chess programmers
>>>(partially) because Crafty is open source is bogus.
>>
>>Crafty recently won a high profile internet event, with the best commercial
>>engines participating also.
>>
>>Crafty is *without any question* the strongest freely available chess engine.
>>
>>To offer *THAT* source code to the public is a service so large it cannot be
>>expressed properly, except in the most glowing terms.
>
>Actually, I can express it in less than glowing terms:
>1) ICC is polluted with Crafty clones.

If those people are having fun, what's wrong with it?  Noplay them, if you don't
want to deal with them.

>2) Crafty clones show up at official CC tournaments.

Remmington makes a rifle.  Joe buys one and uses it to shoot the president.
Remmington is evil.  Maybe not, maybe it's Joe who did something wrong.

>3) Why write your own program if Crafty's source code is open and it would take
>years to make a program that beats it?

Because you want to accomplish something?  I considered writing a crafty clone,
and even asked Bob for permission at one point.  But then I abandoned that idea
and decided to do it from scratch.

>4) People worship Bob only because he gives them free stuff.

I have lots of free stuff from lots of people and I don't worship any of them,
Bob included.  I *like* Bob because of many factors.  'Free stuff' is certainly
one of them, but probably the least important.

To put people in a box and label them as self-centered in that way is a strange
sort of stereotyping and not accurate, I think.

>I'm sure there are more reasons to be unhappy with Crafty, and I know I'm not
>the only person who feels this way.

The reasons seem silly to me, but then again, I'm not annoyed.  I imagine if I
was annoyed, the reasons would seem sensible.

>>Crafty epitomizes all of the most efficient techniques in modern chess
>>programming.
>
>Sure, if you like bitboards...

And I do.  That is not the only approach that is interesting to me.  I think
Colin Frayn's move generator is very nice.  I think Martin Borriss' move
generator is very nice.  I think Dieter Buerssner's move generator is very nice,
and none of them are based upon bitboard.  [I also like Amy very much which *is*
bitboard based.]  I have even given thoughts to a "situational" approach where
the move generator has a fundamental internal representation but generation can
be done either with bitboards or with some other method, depending upon the
current situation, etc.

I think it is a very big mistake not to study every feasible approach and not
fully understand the strengths and weaknesses of that approach.



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