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Subject: Re: best chess programmers

Author: Dan Ellwein

Date: 20:24:40 07/21/00

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On July 21, 2000 at 15:05:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 21, 2000 at 14:34:39, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>
>>On July 21, 2000 at 01:12:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On July 21, 2000 at 00:58:29, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>[snip]
>>>>My point is that giving away your source code doesn't necessarily make you a
>>>>better programmer. Saying that Bob Hyatt is one of the top 5 chess programmers
>>>>(partially) because Crafty is open source is bogus.
>>>
>>>Crafty recently won a high profile internet event, with the best commercial
>>>engines participating also.
>>>
>>>Crafty is *without any question* the strongest freely available chess engine.
>>>
>>>To offer *THAT* source code to the public is a service so large it cannot be
>>>expressed properly, except in the most glowing terms.
>>
>>Actually, I can express it in less than glowing terms:
>>1) ICC is polluted with Crafty clones.
>
>That is pretty bogus.  Before crafty, we were up to our armpits in gnuchess
>clones.  Today, we have about as many tiger clones.  With a few fritz clones
>sneaking in as people figure out how to automate them.  Crafty isn't the
>'majority' any longer I don't think...
>
>
>
>
>>2) Crafty clones show up at official CC tournaments.
>
>So?  I know of at least one "Genius" clone that showed up at a WMCCC event.
>Does that make Lang "stupid"?  Ditto for gnuchess clones.  There will be
>others.
>
>
>
>
>>3) Why write your own program if Crafty's source code is open and it would take
>>years to make a program that beats it?
>
>Why build your own house when you can rent an apartment?  Why build your own
>radio receiver when you can buy one ready made?  Some want to know what goes
>on inside and do it themselves.  Others want a ready-made 'thing' so that they
>can do something _else_ with their time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>4) People worship Bob only because he gives them free stuff.


i don't worship Bob, but i do respect him and what he has done...

as i do other folks on here as well...

Tom... you seem like a pretty good guy...

but ya might want to relax and enjoy life a little...

:)

pilgrimdan


>based on the comments I see here on CCC, I don't see anyone that "worships"
>me.  Nor would I want to.  I do what I do because I _want_ to do it, not
>because I _have_ to do it, or because I _should_ do it.  It is all about
>_want_...
>
>Do people have to give _you_ something before you develop a friendship with
>them?  If so, you ought to rethink that...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I'm sure there are more reasons to be unhappy with Crafty, and I know I'm not
>>the only person who feels this way.
>>
>>>Crafty epitomizes all of the most efficient techniques in modern chess
>>>programming.
>>
>>Sure, if you like bitboards...
>>
>>-Tom
>
>
>Or even if you don't.  Board representation is but a small part of a complete
>chess engine.  Comments/internal documentation is important to.  There is a
>plethora of _that_ in Crafty that has nothing to do with bitboards at all.



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