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Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Chris Carson

Date: 07:20:58 07/22/00

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On July 22, 2000 at 07:46:00, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On July 20, 2000 at 21:50:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 20, 2000 at 15:47:53, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:50:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:26:16, Chris Carson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 13:03:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>2 years ago a single DB chip played several matches with top commercial
>>>>>>programs.  This DB chip was running at 1/10th of its normal speed, and yet
>>>>>>it won 36 out of 40 games.  This has been reported several times here on CCC,
>>>>>>by several that have heard Hsu and Campbell give talks about the DB hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If it could win 90% of the games running at 1/10th the normal speed for one
>>>>>>chip, what does 480 chips at full speed get (hint:  4,800 times faster).  Would
>>>>>>you think it might have a pretty easy time with today's programs?  quads or
>>>>>>8-way boxes as you want?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Games against P90 machines.  What were the program versions? what were
>>>>>the settings?  Who was the operator?  Which book was used?  Where are
>>>>>the games for inspection?  Did the DB team get permission to perform
>>>>>this tournament and permission to report results?  Were you there?
>>>>
>>>>I was there.  The program authors were there.  That was a requirement for the
>>>>ACM events.  We all sat across the board from each other.  Marty.  Ed.  Richard.
>>>>Hsu.  Myself.  anybody else you would care to name...
>>>
>>>Nah.... you are talking on late 80th's Rebel running on a 5 Mhz 6502
>>>processor with 32 Kb Ram Rebel doing just 500 NPS. Your point again?
>>>
>>>Ed
>>>
>>
>>
>>I like the math game...
>>
>>so lets see.. you were doing 500NPS in 1988?  And today you are doing maybe
>>500K?  A factor of 1,000?
>>
>>They were doing 300K in 1988.  They hit 1B in 1997.  1,000,000,000 divided by
>>300,000 is how many times faster?  3,333 X faster you say?
>>
>>Now do you get my point?  They have widened the NPS gap by a factor of 3.5
>>since 1988.
>>
>>_that_ is my point. The gap has continually _widened_.  _not_ _narrowed_...
>
>Wrong math.
>
>From the IBM site (1988)
>
>   "Deep Thought 0.01 becomes
>    Deep Thought 0.02 and
>    improves to 720,000 chess
>    positions per second. The new
>    program includes two
>    customized VLSI chess
>    processors.
>
>So 720,000 and not 300,000
>
>Your second mistake is the 1B. Where did you read that? You know very
>well 200M is claimed, no quoting needed.
>
>So 200M / 720K = not even 300 times faster.
>
>As you say Rebel improved with a factor of 1000 (3½ times more than DB)
>nota bene the exact opposite you claim.
>
>Not that such math impresses me (as if computer chess is about hardware
>only) but I do you like you the fact you have an argument less.
>
>Ed

Ed,

Besides the impressive speed up that you point out, I would also
point out that Rebel improved at least as much from the SW side.

You get a lot out of the HW you target for.  :)

Best Regards,
Chris Carson



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