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Subject: Re: Deeper blue was probably a root processor

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 13:03:59 07/22/00

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On July 22, 2000 at 15:32:26, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On July 22, 2000 at 14:16:51, Andrew Dados wrote:
>
>>On July 22, 2000 at 14:11:20, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On July 22, 2000 at 13:28:28, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>Deeper blue had a positive evaluation before trading queens.
>>>>
>>>>The evaluation of Deeper blue was based on Deeper blue's logfile
>>>>
>>>>9(6)  3 T=46  34...Qxf1
>>>>10(6) 2 T=130 34...Qxf1
>>>>11(6) 2 T=168 34...Qxf1
>>>>
>>>>The evaluation when deeper blue started to ponder (hash guess Rxf1) was
>>>>
>>>>7  (4) -30
>>>>7  (6) -66
>>>>8  (6) -50
>>>>9  (6) -50
>>>>10 (6) -50
>>>>11 (6) -48
>>>>
>>>>Deeper blue lost 0.5 pawn in the evaluation and the only reason that I can
>>>>explain it is that it is a root processor.
>>>>
>>>>I guess that something like this cannot happen to Deep Junior because it is
>>>>probably more knowledge based program.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>The behavior you describe is quite normal. After a queen exchange in the
>>>next move often other more accurate tables are used which may cause such
>>>score differences. I do the same in Rebel. That doesn't make the program
>>>a root processor. A root processor is a program that totally (or to a
>>>great extend) relies on the evaluation on the root. If you read the IBM
>>>pages it is said DB has something similar (a short investigation at the
>>>root). That makes DB no root processor.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>What you just said is pretty much confirmation of preprocessing to me:
>>'After a queen exchange in the next move often other more accurate tables are
>>used []'...
>>If it is done in the search - then no score differences should be seen; if it is
>>done at root then it is clear preprocessing...
>>
>>-Andrew-
>
>Yes such ticks are preprocessing. And it helps. But note that in Rebel
>only a few things are done this way not more than being < 0.5% of the
>total knowledge. That makes Rebel not a root processor and DB neither
>which was my reply to header of the subject.
>
>Ed

I disagree.

Even if only a small part is preprocessed, the effect here is huge: half a pawn.
DB played 37... Qxf1+ into an even position and woke up a move later into a
half-pawn disadvantage. This means that according to its own evaluation Qxf1 is
a blunder and would never have been played if not for preprocessing.

DB switched from Qe2 (-21) to Qxf1+ (+2) and then learned that it's actually
Qxf1+ (-48). So Qe2 was clearly better by DB evaluation.

Junior evaluates Qe2 and Qxf1+ as equals.

Amir



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