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Subject: Re: But Not Yet As Good As Deep Blue '97

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:38:49 07/22/00

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On July 22, 2000 at 10:20:58, Chris Carson wrote:

>On July 22, 2000 at 07:46:00, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On July 20, 2000 at 21:50:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 20, 2000 at 15:47:53, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:50:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:26:16, Chris Carson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 13:03:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2 years ago a single DB chip played several matches with top commercial
>>>>>>>programs.  This DB chip was running at 1/10th of its normal speed, and yet
>>>>>>>it won 36 out of 40 games.  This has been reported several times here on CCC,
>>>>>>>by several that have heard Hsu and Campbell give talks about the DB hardware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If it could win 90% of the games running at 1/10th the normal speed for one
>>>>>>>chip, what does 480 chips at full speed get (hint:  4,800 times faster).  Would
>>>>>>>you think it might have a pretty easy time with today's programs?  quads or
>>>>>>>8-way boxes as you want?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Games against P90 machines.  What were the program versions? what were
>>>>>>the settings?  Who was the operator?  Which book was used?  Where are
>>>>>>the games for inspection?  Did the DB team get permission to perform
>>>>>>this tournament and permission to report results?  Were you there?
>>>>>
>>>>>I was there.  The program authors were there.  That was a requirement for the
>>>>>ACM events.  We all sat across the board from each other.  Marty.  Ed.  Richard.
>>>>>Hsu.  Myself.  anybody else you would care to name...
>>>>
>>>>Nah.... you are talking on late 80th's Rebel running on a 5 Mhz 6502
>>>>processor with 32 Kb Ram Rebel doing just 500 NPS. Your point again?
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I like the math game...
>>>
>>>so lets see.. you were doing 500NPS in 1988?  And today you are doing maybe
>>>500K?  A factor of 1,000?
>>>
>>>They were doing 300K in 1988.  They hit 1B in 1997.  1,000,000,000 divided by
>>>300,000 is how many times faster?  3,333 X faster you say?
>>>
>>>Now do you get my point?  They have widened the NPS gap by a factor of 3.5
>>>since 1988.
>>>
>>>_that_ is my point. The gap has continually _widened_.  _not_ _narrowed_...
>>
>>Wrong math.
>>
>>From the IBM site (1988)
>>
>>   "Deep Thought 0.01 becomes
>>    Deep Thought 0.02 and
>>    improves to 720,000 chess
>>    positions per second. The new
>>    program includes two
>>    customized VLSI chess
>>    processors.
>>
>>So 720,000 and not 300,000
>>
>>Your second mistake is the 1B. Where did you read that? You know very
>>well 200M is claimed, no quoting needed.
>>
>>So 200M / 720K = not even 300 times faster.
>>
>>As you say Rebel improved with a factor of 1000 (3½ times more than DB)
>>nota bene the exact opposite you claim.
>>
>>Not that such math impresses me (as if computer chess is about hardware
>>only) but I do you like you the fact you have an argument less.
>>
>>Ed
>
>Ed,
>
>Besides the impressive speed up that you point out, I would also
>point out that Rebel improved at least as much from the SW side.
>
>You get a lot out of the HW you target for.  :)
>
>Best Regards,
>Chris Carson


And the DT/DB program didn't improve?  Have you read the JICCA paper on their
search extensions? It is probably the _standard_ reference for search extensions
and null-move testing.  What says that their software didn't improve?  a desire
to paint them in the worst possible light???



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