Author: blass uri
Date: 15:53:39 07/22/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 22, 2000 at 17:38:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 22, 2000 at 10:20:58, Chris Carson wrote: > >>On July 22, 2000 at 07:46:00, Ed Schröder wrote: >> >>>On July 20, 2000 at 21:50:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On July 20, 2000 at 15:47:53, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:50:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 14:26:16, Chris Carson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 20, 2000 at 13:03:42, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>2 years ago a single DB chip played several matches with top commercial >>>>>>>>programs. This DB chip was running at 1/10th of its normal speed, and yet >>>>>>>>it won 36 out of 40 games. This has been reported several times here on CCC, >>>>>>>>by several that have heard Hsu and Campbell give talks about the DB hardware. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If it could win 90% of the games running at 1/10th the normal speed for one >>>>>>>>chip, what does 480 chips at full speed get (hint: 4,800 times faster). Would >>>>>>>>you think it might have a pretty easy time with today's programs? quads or >>>>>>>>8-way boxes as you want? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Games against P90 machines. What were the program versions? what were >>>>>>>the settings? Who was the operator? Which book was used? Where are >>>>>>>the games for inspection? Did the DB team get permission to perform >>>>>>>this tournament and permission to report results? Were you there? >>>>>> >>>>>>I was there. The program authors were there. That was a requirement for the >>>>>>ACM events. We all sat across the board from each other. Marty. Ed. Richard. >>>>>>Hsu. Myself. anybody else you would care to name... >>>>> >>>>>Nah.... you are talking on late 80th's Rebel running on a 5 Mhz 6502 >>>>>processor with 32 Kb Ram Rebel doing just 500 NPS. Your point again? >>>>> >>>>>Ed >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I like the math game... >>>> >>>>so lets see.. you were doing 500NPS in 1988? And today you are doing maybe >>>>500K? A factor of 1,000? >>>> >>>>They were doing 300K in 1988. They hit 1B in 1997. 1,000,000,000 divided by >>>>300,000 is how many times faster? 3,333 X faster you say? >>>> >>>>Now do you get my point? They have widened the NPS gap by a factor of 3.5 >>>>since 1988. >>>> >>>>_that_ is my point. The gap has continually _widened_. _not_ _narrowed_... >>> >>>Wrong math. >>> >>>From the IBM site (1988) >>> >>> "Deep Thought 0.01 becomes >>> Deep Thought 0.02 and >>> improves to 720,000 chess >>> positions per second. The new >>> program includes two >>> customized VLSI chess >>> processors. >>> >>>So 720,000 and not 300,000 >>> >>>Your second mistake is the 1B. Where did you read that? You know very >>>well 200M is claimed, no quoting needed. >>> >>>So 200M / 720K = not even 300 times faster. >>> >>>As you say Rebel improved with a factor of 1000 (3½ times more than DB) >>>nota bene the exact opposite you claim. >>> >>>Not that such math impresses me (as if computer chess is about hardware >>>only) but I do you like you the fact you have an argument less. >>> >>>Ed >> >>Ed, >> >>Besides the impressive speed up that you point out, I would also >>point out that Rebel improved at least as much from the SW side. >> >>You get a lot out of the HW you target for. :) >> >>Best Regards, >>Chris Carson > > >And the DT/DB program didn't improve? Have you read the JICCA paper on their >search extensions? It is probably the _standard_ reference for search extensions >and null-move testing. What says that their software didn't improve? a desire >to paint them in the worst possible light??? I have no evidence that their software was improved. They are not commercial so we cannot test it. Their papers prove nothing and the only proof is in games. The fact that they did bad result in 1995 and did not play public games after it to prove that they were unlucky is an evidence that their software did not improve. If they could get more than 90% against Fritz3(p90) they had no reason to avoid proving it to the world before the match with kasparov. Uri
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