Author: KarinsDad
Date: 07:52:40 07/25/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 25, 2000 at 05:26:58, blass uri wrote: >On July 25, 2000 at 01:26:15, KarinsDad wrote: > >>On July 24, 2000 at 20:26:27, John Coffey wrote: >> >>>On July 24, 2000 at 14:45:01, KarinsDad wrote: >>> >>>>On July 24, 2000 at 14:23:19, KarinsDad wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 24, 2000 at 13:30:06, Jari Huikari wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 24, 2000 at 13:01:36, John Coffey wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Only slightly related to the GUI is having a range of abilities from beginner >>>>>>>up to the top level that can be fine tuned. >>>>>> >>>>>>>I tried it on Chessmaster 6000, all the levels 1600 and below were dropping >>>>>>>pieces, and the next level up was smashing me at speed chess (my quick rating >>>>>>>is 1978.) >>>>>> >>>>>>I have thought about how this could be done. One idea that came into my >>>>>>mind was simply to put some delay routine into search to make it slower >>>>>>and thus playing weaker. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jari >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I do not think those types of solutions work, i.e. less time, fewer nodes, lower >>>>>depth, etc. The program will still play relatively strong until some other >>>>>algorithm takes over (i.e. the below 1600 drop piece problem that John noted). >>>>> >>>>>What you need is a chess engine that generates multiple ply 1 PVs. Then, it >>>>>could randomly pick a different PV each move. >>>>> >>>>>So, for example, if it had 5 PVs that it could choose from, at 2600 setting it >>>>>would always pick PV 1 each time. At 2400 setting, it would occasionally pick >>>>>the PV 2 move. At 2200, it would pick PV 1 45%, PV 2 45%, PV 3 10%. At 1600, it >>>>>might pick PV 1 20%, PV 2 20%, PV 3 20%, PV 4 20%, PV 5 20%. >>>>> >>>>>Then, the computer would not be dropping pieces, even at a 1000 setting (even >>>>>though 1000 players often do drop a piece). But, it would rarely be playing the >>>>>best move in those positions at the lower settings. >>>>> >>>>>Of course, you would have to add in some logic that the scores of the PVs could >>>>>not be that drastically different. For example, NxB would normally result in PxN >>>>>as PV 1. If PV 2 did not have a similar PV score to PV 1 (i.e. there were no >>>>>waiting moves that do not lose the bishop), then the program would still make >>>>>the PV 1 move, regardless of setting. >>>>> >>>>>KarinsDad :) >>>> >>>>I forgot to mention that lowering the depth in conjunction with this type of >>>>solution would be optimal. It doesn't make sense to pick a PV 5 move that avoids >>>>a capture 14 ply down that is also avoided by PV 1 through 4. If the setting is >>>>1200 rating, then the program should not generally be seeing more than 4 to 6 >>>>ply down before deciding on it's PVs. >>>> >>>>KarinsDad :) >>> >>> >>>The idea has occured to me before. Write a program that would decide randomly >>>between between the best N # of moves where N is based upon the level of >>>difficulty. I saw the same problem that you saw which was that sometimes >>>the best move is forced. So then you have to decide how much of an error you >>>will allow. If you will allow a 3 point error at 1300 but only a 2 point >>>error at 1400 then you have the problem that 1300 will drop knights and 1400 >>>won't. Maybe that isn't a problem. But maybe there would be too much >>>difference between 1300 and 1400. >>> >>>John Coffey >> >>I think the issue is one of having a program attempt to decide the average >>"power" of a move based on the setting desired. Once that is decided (does that >>mean only searching 8 ply, does that mean randomly picking between the perceived >>best three moves, etc.), the program can still play reasonably well, but it can >>also blunder if a piece hangs in 6 ply, etc. >> >>The problem comes in when the program makes a move that is SO stupid that not >>even a low rated player would make that move (in standard time controls, in >>blitz, almost everyone but extremely good players blunder). When this happens, >>the program is considered a dumb machine. > >Even high rated players do sometimes blunders of not seeing one move. >It does not happen often but it happens. > >I remember that it happened even to one of the world champions. > >Uri Yes, Fischer missed mate in one. KarinsDad :)
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