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Subject: Re: Fritz 6 vs H 7.32 > Scores at 10-20-50-100-150-200-250&306 games!

Author: Harald Faber

Date: 08:26:36 07/28/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 28, 2000 at 11:11:33, blass uri wrote:

>On July 28, 2000 at 08:07:32, Harald Faber wrote:
>
>>On July 28, 2000 at 06:49:44, Terry Ripple wrote:
>>
>>>On July 28, 2000 at 05:58:53, Terry Ripple wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 28, 2000 at 03:06:29, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 28, 2000 at 01:05:53, Terry Ripple wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Used an AMD K6-2, 266Mhz, 64Ram, Ponder off, 16Mb Hash per engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If anyone cares to see some or all of the games, i will be glad to post them.
>>>>>> This match shows how close the strengths are between these two fine engines!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best regards,
>>>>>>Terry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Blitz:5'  2000
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1   Fritz 6      158.0/306
>>>>>>2   Hiarcs 7.32  148.0/306
>>>>>
>>>>>Again for interest: What is the score after 10, 20, 50, 100 and 200 games from
>>>>>your tournament?
>>>>
>>>>Hi Harold,
>>>> It's interesting to see how the scores change, and proves that you need many
>>>>games to try and determine the strengths of different engines! Here's the info:
>>>>
>>>>Regards,Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                      Fritz 6   H7.32
>>>> Scores at 10 games :   2.5      7.5
>>>>    "      20   "   :  10.0     10.0
>>>>    "      50   "   :  26.5     23.5
>>>>    "      100  "   :  52.0     48.0
>>>>    "      150  "   :  79.5     70.5
>>>>    "      200  "   : 105.5     94.5
>>>>    "      250  "   : 130.5    119.5
>>>>    "      306  "   : 158.0    148.0
>>>
>>>  I would like to comment from the scores that it proves that at a 20 game match
>>>it doesn't mean anything! Between 50 and 100 games the score for Fritz moves up
>>>only slightly from a +3 to +4 points in its favor. But at 150 games the score
>>>climbs considerably to a +9 point advantage over Hiarcs7.32. Then it starts
>>>tapering off between the 200 and 250 games with a point advantage of +11 for
>>>Fritz 6 and then drops to a +10 point advantage at 306 games. So, for two -
>>>engines that are close to the same strength it shows that you need 50 to 100
>>>games, and if the engines are "extremly" close in strength it would be wise to
>>>play anywhere from 150 to 200 games! This of course is based on playing 5 min.
>>>per side for the whole game, as slower time controls might change this factor!
>>>  This of course is only from the view of a non-expert's opinion, and by -
>>>presenting this information that was requested by Harold i hope to get some
>>>interesting points of view from our members.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Terry
>>
>>
>>Hi Terry,
>>Thanks a lot for the info.
>>It reflects all I have expected and what I have got in my own testing games.
>>I hope this info opens many eyes who conclude MUCH too early. You may get an
>>idea of weaknesses or strengths of new programs or versions after few games but
>>this is only subjective.
>>And this result proves me right with my estimation that the top 10 programs play
>>at one level. (I know that you played 5min/game but the result won't be much
>>different with longer time controls)
>>BTW the +10 difference in favour of Fritz after 306 games just means 51.6%
>>winning percentage, that is why I say one level.
>
>I disagree.


I knew that. :-)
You almost always disagree with anything. :-)


>Hiarcs is better in blitz and I expect result of 60% for Fritz6 in tournament
>time control based on the ssdf rating.


"Expect" is very vague and pure speculation.
And BTW a possible 60%-score would not say that Fritz is stronger, this would
have to be proven against other opponents too...


>I discovered that hiarcs suffers from a learning bug at tournament time
>control(there are cases when it needs more time to see something or cannot see
>something because it does not get the right information from the hash tables)
>and I guess that it is the main reason that hiarcs is worse at tournament time
>control.
>Uri


I disagree. :-)
Do you have enough games to prove this? :-)




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