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Subject: Re: Fritz 6 vs H 7.32 > Scores at 10-20-50-100-150-200-250&306 games!

Author: James Thompson

Date: 18:58:41 07/28/00

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On July 28, 2000 at 10:20:22, Harald Faber wrote:

>On July 28, 2000 at 09:29:29, James Thompson wrote:
>
>>
>>>>>                      Fritz 6   H7.32
>>>>> Scores at 10 games :   2.5      7.5
>>>>>    "      20   "   :  10.0     10.0
>>>>>    "      50   "   :  26.5     23.5
>>>>>    "      100  "   :  52.0     48.0
>>>>>    "      150  "   :  79.5     70.5
>>>>>    "      200  "   : 105.5     94.5
>>>>>    "      250  "   : 130.5    119.5
>>>>>    "      306  "   : 158.0    148.0
>>>>
>>>>  I would like to comment from the scores that it proves that at a 20 game match
>>>>it doesn't mean anything! Between 50 and 100 games the score for Fritz moves up only slightly from a +3 to +4 points in its favor. But at 150 games the score
>>>>climbs considerably to a +9 point advantage over Hiarcs7.32. Then it starts
>>>>tapering off between the 200 and 250 games with a point advantage of +11 for
>>>>Fritz 6 and then drops to a +10 point advantage at 306 games. So, for two -
>>>>engines that are close to the same strength it shows that you need 50 to 100
>>>>games, and if the engines are "extremly" close in strength it would be wise to
>>>>play anywhere from 150 to 200 games!
>>
>>I understand that you need a large enough sample to get a fair assessment of the
>>strength of one machine versus another but I'm having a problem interpretinng
>>the results as presented.   Each game is independent of the previous game, thus
>>you are sampling a population "with replacement".  If that's the case the margin
>>of wins wouldn't flip would it?  UNLESS something else affected the results,
>>e.g. the openings played or the color each machine played. Naturally I'm
>>assuming "engine parameters" are held constant from game to game.  Assuming this
>>is correct wouldn't it be possible and a more accurate assessment to determine
>>that one engine is stronger when playing a particluar color or a particular
>>line(s)?  Has anyone done that kink of analysis?
>>
>>James
>
>
>Of course the games need to have different opening lines.
>Do you suggest playing ONE opening line with white and black against all other
>opponents? Then continue with another opening line and so on? Yes, that would be
>perfect but takes a LOT of time noone is able nor willing to spend.
>And you will also have to assemble all those results because it is not unlikely
>that one or another program are favoured by one special opening line or even
>complete opening therefore one needs to have various opening lines with this
>experiment.

Actually I was suggesting doing  little more with the analysis of the results.
For instance being able to demonstrate a propensity for a certain color or line
(more success attacking or defending).  But you make a good point about the time
required to complete such a detailed analysis.  Maybe it's not worth it...

James




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