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Subject: Re: Endgame position, help needed

Author: blass uri

Date: 04:51:37 07/31/00

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On July 31, 2000 at 05:46:39, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On July 31, 2000 at 05:33:42, Andreas Stabel wrote:
>
>>On July 31, 2000 at 04:14:42, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On July 31, 2000 at 04:02:06, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 31, 2000 at 03:32:31, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 31, 2000 at 02:25:37, Poschmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In a magazine I found the following position. It should be a draw ?
>>>>>>Unfortunately I don't have the following issue of the magazine with the
>>>>>>solution.
>>>>>>It is a 6-piece-endgame. I tried to solve it with the help of Fritz6
>>>>>>(without tablebases), but I can't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]K7/8/4k3/1R1R4/8/8/p7/7r w - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I had the following to ideas:
>>>>>>a) Go to a 5-piece-endgame:
>>>>>>1. Re5+ Kf6 2. Rf5+ Kg6 3. Rg5+ Kh6 4. Rh5+ Rxh5 5. Rb6+ Kg5 6. Ra6 Rh2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>b) Allow Black to promote the pawn:
>>>>>>... 4. Rge5 a1=Q+ 5. Ra5
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think in both cases White loses the game. But I can't proof it without
>>>>>>tablebases.
>>>>>>- Can somebody with the 5-piece-tablebases proof position a)
>>>>>>- Are some 6-piece-tablebases available to proof position b) without a pawn or
>>>>>>  the initial position with one pawn.
>>>>>>- Is there somebody who knows the initial position and its solution ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you
>>>>>>Ralf Poschmann
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the basic idea may be something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.Re5 Kf6 2.Ra5 a1Q 3.Rb5 Qd4 4.Rb6 Qxb6 5.Rf5 Ke7 6.Rf7 Kd8 7.Rf8 Kc7 8.Rf7 Kc8
>>>>> 9.Rc7
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm doing this from work (night shift), so I didn't have time to elaborate nor
>>>>>check my analysis. If it isn't right, maybe it will give you the ideas you need
>>>>>to figure it out for yourself. Good luck!
>>>>
>>>>Oops! 3...Rh8 improves. It looks like I have to push the K all the way over to
>>>>h6 after all: 2.Rf5 Kg6 3.Rg5 Kh6 4. Ra5 a1Q 5. Rb5 Qd4 (5...Qh8 6.Rb8) 6.Rb6
>>>>Qxb6 7.Rh5 Kg7 8.Rh7 Kf8 9. Rh8 Ke7 10.Rh7 Kd8 (10...Kd6 is a real can of worms
>>>>I'll let you work out for now. I have to get back to work!) 11.Kc7 Rh7 12.Kc8
>>>>Rc7
>>>
>>>Aha! I think I've fixed it now. 10..Kd6 11.Rh6 Kc5 12.Rh5 Kc4 wins, but 9.Rf7
>>>draws. Back to work again!
>>
>>Crafty finds the draw:
>>14->  44.43   0.00   1. Re5+ Kd6 2. Rbd5+ Kc6 3. Rc5+ Kb6
>>                     4. Rb5+ Ka6 5. Ra5+ Kb6 6. Reb5+ Kc6
>>                     7. Rxa2 <EGTB>
>>
>>Regards
>>Andreas Stabel
>
>It seems to, but unfortunately the PV it gives is not very enlightning. 1...Kf6
>is the critical line. After 1...Kd6, could analysis should stop right then and
>there with obvious draw.
>
>Feed the position after 1.Re5 Kf6 2.Rf5 Kg6 3.Rg5 Kh6 to crafty and see what it
>says.

Crafty can see the right moves Ra5 a1=Q Rb5 but you do not need to see it in a
game because crafty is going to let you a simple perpetual check after Re5+ Kf6
Rf5+ Ke6 or maybe even Re5+ Kd6(when I start a game against Crafty with white
from the position that was posted the game is Re5+ Kf6 Rf5+ Ke6 when the ke6 is
because of retaining hash tables because without learniong from previous search
crafty plays Kg6 and I guess that it even may play after Re5+ Kd6 if it could
learn from previous positions).

Uri



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