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Subject: Re: Tablebases for 6 and 7 man classes

Author: Komputer Korner

Date: 22:04:35 11/23/97

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I would suggest that EG researchers stop after completing all the 6 man
pawnless EG tablebases and then start doing ones with pawns. The reason
is that I challenge anyone to come up with  an actual game position that
has ever had a 7 man or higher pawnless endgame.

On November 18, 1997 at 12:31:18, Steven J. Edwards wrote:

>A six man tablebase for a pawnless class has 64 times as many entries as
>a pawnless five man class.  Each pawnless five man class file (two
>files, WTM and BTM, per class) requires 160 Mbyte with one byte per
>entry; so a pawnless six man class needs 10 Gbyte, BUT only if each
>entry requires a single byte.  If, say, two bytes were used then 20
>Gbyte is needed.  The problem is that the number of bits required is
>based on the logarithms of the maximal mate/loss distances and these
>aren't known until after the calculation is over.  I have no doubt that
>many of the six man classes are going to need more than one byte per
>entry.
>
>Similar comments go for six man classes with pawns: at one byte per
>entry, each of the files needs 32 Gbyte of storage.
>
>For each extra man, multiple the respective (pawn/pawnless) numbers by
>sixty four.  This means Tbyte (terabyte) sizes.
>
>In addition to entry size, another difficulty is the indexing needed for
>large file access.  Most consumer systems support, at best, 31 bits of
>file indexing.  This is 2 Gbyte which is big enough for most purposes,
>but not for six man classes.  There are a number of ways of handling
>this, the obvious one being the use of multiple files for a single
>tablebase class side-to-move.
>
>The program tbgen was designed from the start to allow generation of
>classes with more than five men.  It does not require RAM storage
>proportional to the class size, but instead uses disk resources so it
>can run on modest machines as long as they have enough mass storage.
>Of course, the index type used in tbgen (indexT, a long int) needs to be
>redefined to handle extra long indexing.  Another feature of the tbgen
>program is that none of the files it uses are accessed randomly (e.g.,
>fseek()), but instead only sequentially.  This means that tape drives
>can be used for some or all of the files.  Some minor recoding might be
>needed depending on the tape interface, but nothing very significant.
>
>I have spent some time working on estimation of running times for
>different classes.  There are many factors involved including piece
>count, type, distribution, etc.  The truth is that the only way to find
>out how long a class might take is to go ahead and generate it.
>
>But before starting anything with six man classes, I would first propose
>that work be continued on completing the en passant implementation.
>This would allow a full KPKP (very handy) and eventually a full KPPKP
>(which would be extremely useful).
>
>(tbgen.tar.gz and tbgen.zip are available from the chess.onenet.net ftp
>site in the pub/chess/uploads/TB directory.)
>
>-- Steven (sje@mv.mv.com)



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