Author: leonid
Date: 16:21:31 08/12/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2000 at 15:29:00, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 12, 2000 at 15:13:39, leonid wrote: > >>On August 12, 2000 at 14:53:58, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 12, 2000 at 13:53:30, leonid wrote: >>> >>>>On August 12, 2000 at 13:24:14, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 12, 2000 at 11:45:21, leonid wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 12, 2000 at 02:45:06, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 12, 2000 at 00:57:46, Angrim wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 20:30:53, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But your position is an easy one. Try this one with your favorite chess programs >>>>>>>>>and tell me what happens: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[D]8/PPPPPpPk/3rq3/1b1r2b1/2BR1B2/3RQ3/pppppPpK/8 w >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I confess that mine gets nuts on this one. >>>>>> >>>>>>I very liked position and just added to it some few more pieces for even more >>>>>>complexities. Now it contain mate that I don't even know exactly in how many >>>>>>moves. Please say exact number if you can. White goes and mate. >>>>>> >>>>>>Must add to this position: two black bishops on c6 and f6. >>>>>> and two white bishops on c3 and f3. >>>>> >>>>>Impossible with chessbase. >>>>>The interface of Hiarcs7.32 does not let me to put 7 pawns and 4 bishops of the >>>>>same side. >>>>> >>>>>7 pawns and 4 bishops mean that 2 of the 4 bishops were pawns in th history. >>>>>It means that white had 9 pawns in the history of the game and it means illegal >>>>>position. >>>>> >>>>>I guess that this is the reason that the chessbase interface does not let me to >>>>>put the position on the board. >>>>> >>>>>I think that Genius3 is better because it lets me to put more illegal positions. >>>>>I did not check this position but I remember that I could play king and 15 >>>>>queens against king and 15 queens with Genius3. >>>>> >>>>>Unfortunately Genius3 does not let me to put more than 16 pieces for one side so >>>>>I could not analyze more comlicated positions with it. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Interesting! Genius is all the time the best program for mate solution. You did >>>>good choice by trying to solve just on it. Genius is very permissive, stable and >>>>exact. This position look more like exception. >>>> >>>>Do your Genius 3 have some problem with graphics? My Genius 2 had. >>>> >>>>Second very stable and permissive program is Chessmaster. >>>> >>>>At least 50% of all chess programs I expect to hang on the position like this. >>> >>>The main problem with the chessbase interface is that it does not let me to put >>>the position on the screen. >>> >>>I do not know if the engines have problems with the illegal positions because I >>>cannot get them to analyze the position. >> >>It is true. I somehow not even look into the fact that only one bishop should be >>added to each side. My program is too permissive. >> >>Take out black bishop from c6 and white from c3. Now you still have the mate but >>at much shorter distance. Try this if you want. If you will do this, please say >>me on what program, at what computer, and how many moves lead to the mate. If >>you could put this positions for others in graphics, it will be nice as well. >> >>Leonid. > >[D]8/PPPPPpPk/3rqb2/1b1r2b1/2BR1B2/3RQB2/pppppPpK/8 w - - 0 1 > >Junior5.9 says 1.g8Q+ is mate in 10. I hope you speak about new position that I said (black bishop at f6 and white bishop at f3). This position I only verified up to the move 9. Put to brute force search when I left home. It took one hour to say no for 9. So 10 moves I expected to take huge time. My program have no hash tables. Only selective search said me that mate existe for sure in 12 moves. Took 7 seconds to solve. >Main line begins with 1.g8Q+ Kxg8 2.b8Q+ > >In the original illegal position with the bishops at c6 and f6 Genius3 can see >no mate in 5 in few minutes and suggests at infinite level 1.g8Q+ analysis >continued Kxg8 2.c8Q+ Kg7(Kh7 Be4+(mate in 6)) 3.Qf8+ (mate in 8) so my analysis >with Genius also showed mate in 10 in the original position. Good! I will save all those few positions with mate. They are too strange and original to be lost. Also they are useful for occasional verification of move generator for possible bugs. Leonid. >Uri
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