Author: Olaf Jenkner
Date: 16:11:45 08/14/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 14, 2000 at 08:43:08, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>This one is a MES position:
>
>[D]3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1
>
>After 6.f5, all programs I tried evaluate it from +11 to +17.
>
>Enrique
>
>[Event "?"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "????.??.??"]
>[Round "?"]
>[White "MES.941"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "*"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>[FEN "3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P1K2P/PPB5/8 w - - 0 1"]
>[PlyCount "11"]
>
>1. Ba4+ Kxa4 2. b3+ Kb5 3. c4+ Kc6 4. d5+ Kd7 5. e6+ Kxd8 6. f5 *
The computer does not have to see the draw to solve this study.
The solution can be found, when all other moves give a worse
evaluation.
To find the value of the drawn position I analysed the position
after 1.Bxa4+ Kxa4 2.b3+ Kb5 3.c4+ Kc6 4.d5+ Kd7 5.e6+ Kxd8 :
8 0.69 -13.51 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. fxg5 fxg5 3. Ke4 Ra8 4. Kf5 Rg8 5. Ke4
8-> 0.70 -13.51 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. fxg5 fxg5 3. Ke4 Ra8 4. Kf5 Rg8 5. Ke4
9 1.84 -13.62 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 <HT>
9-> 2.01 -13.62 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 <HT>
10 4.58 -13.58 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 fxg5 6.
Kf5
10-> 4.61 -13.58 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 fxg5 6.
Kf5
11 11.03 -13.62 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 fxg5
6. Kf5 Rg7
11-> 11.46 -13.62 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Bb6 5. fxg5 fxg5
6. Kf5 Rg7
12 26.06 -13.69 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Rbb8 5. Ke3 Rbf8
6. f5 <HT>
12-> 26.32 -13.69 1. Ke3 Kc7 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Kf5 Rg8 4. Ke4 Rbb8 5. Ke3 Rbf8
6. f5 <HT>
13 1:10 -14.01 1. Ke3 gxf4+ 2. Kxf4 Ra8 3. Ke4 Kc7 4. Kf3 Rg8 5. Kf2 Rbb8
6. Ke1 f5 7. gxf5 Rbf8 8. Kd2 Rxf5
13 1:17 -13.72 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Rg8 4. Kf3 Bb6 5. Ke4 Rf8
6. Kf3 Rd8 7. Ke4
13-> 1:17 -13.72 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Rg8 4. Kf3 Bb6 5. Ke4 Rf8
6. Kf3 Rd8 7. Ke4
14 1:23 -13.72 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Rg8 4. Kf3 Bb6 5. Ke4 Rf8
6. Kf3 Rd8 7. Ke4 Re8
14-> 1:23 -13.72 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Rg8 4. Kf3 Bb6 5. Ke4 Rf8
6. Kf3 Rd8 7. Ke4 Re8
15 1:36 -13.73 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Bb6 4. Kf3 Rbb8 5. Ke4 Rg8
6. Ke3 Rgf8 7. Ke4 Rad8 8. Ke3
15-> 1:38 -13.73 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Bb6 4. Kf3 Rbb8 5. Ke4 Rg8
6. Ke3 Rgf8 7. Ke4 Rad8 8. Ke3
16 2:00 -13.75 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Bb6 4. Kf3 Rbb8 5. Ke4 Rg8
6. Ke3 Rgf8 7. Ke4 Rad8 8. Ke3 Rfe8
16-> 2:06 -13.75 1. f5 Kc7 2. Ke3 Ra8 3. Ke4 Bb6 4. Kf3 Rbb8 5. Ke4 Rg8
6. Ke3 Rgf8 7. Ke4 Rad8 8. Ke3 Rfe8
It takes 13 plies to get a worse evaluation then -13.7 (which means draw).
Now when the value of the draw is known, I analysed the position
after 1.Bxa4+ Kxa4 2.b3+ Kb5 3.c4+ Kc6 4.d5+ Kd7 :
9 0.70 -9.26 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bg5 Ra8 4. Bxf4 Rf8 5. Ke3 Bb6
9-> 0.77 -9.26 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bg5 Ra8 4. Bxf4 Rf8 5. Ke3 Bb6
10 1.64 -9.07 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bxh4 Ra8 4. Bf2 Rg8 5. Ke2 Rg5
6. Kf3
10-> 1.77 -9.07 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bxh4 Ra8 4. Bf2 Rg8 5. Ke2 Rg5
6. Kf3
11 4.65 -9.28 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bg5 Ra8 4. Bxf4 Rf8 5. Ke3
Re8+
6. Kd3 Bb6 7. Bg5
11-> 4.85 -9.28 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bg5 Ra8 4. Bxf4 Rf8 5. Ke3
Re8+
6. Kd3 Bb6 7. Bg5
12 13.75 -9.23 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bxh4 Ra8 4. Bg5 f3 5. Ke3 Rf8
6. Kf2 Bd8 7. Bxd8 Kxd8
12-> 14.32 -9.23 1. exf6 exf6 2. Bxf6 gxf4 3. Bxh4 Ra8 4. Bg5 f3 5. Ke3 Rf8
6. Kf2 Bd8 7. Bxd8 Kxd8
13 22.93 -- 1. exf6
13 39.29 -10.11 1. exf6 Ke8 2. Bxe7 gxf4 3. Kd3 Rxe7 4. fxe7 Ra7 5. Ke2
Rxe7+
6. Kf2 Re3 7. g5 Rxb3 8. Kg2
13-> 41.82 -10.11 1. exf6 Ke8 2. Bxe7 gxf4 3. Kd3 Rxe7 4. fxe7 Ra7 5. Ke2
Rxe7+
6. Kf2 Re3 7. g5 Rxb3 8. Kg2
14 43.65 -- 1. exf6
14 1:45 -10.88 1. exf6 Ke8 2. Bxe7 gxf4 3. g5 Rxe7 4. fxe7 Ra7 5. Ke2
Rxe7+
6. Kf2 Re3 7. g6 Rxh3 8. Ke1 Rxb3
14-> 2:03 -10.88 1. exf6 Ke8 2. Bxe7 gxf4 3. g5 Rxe7 4. fxe7 Ra7 5. Ke2
Rxe7+
6. Kf2 Re3 7. g6 Rxh3 8. Ke1 Rxb3
15 2:05 -- 1. exf6
15 6:06 -11.37 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 gxf4 4. Bd8 Kf6 5. Ke2 Ra8
6. Kf3 Kg5 7. Bxe7+ Rxe7 8. Kf2 Re3 9. Kg2
15-> 7:18 -11.37 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 gxf4 4. Bd8 Kf6 5. Ke2 Ra8
6. Kf3 Kg5 7. Bxe7+ Rxe7 8. Kf2 Re3 9. Kg2
16 19:14 -11.61 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 gxf4 4. Bd8 Kf6 5. Ke2 Rd7
6. Kf3 Kg5 7. Bc7 Rxc7 8. Ke4 Rb6 9. Kf3
16-> 20:11 -11.61 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 gxf4 4. Bd8 Kf6 5. Ke2 Rd7
6. Kf3 Kg5 7. Bc7 Rxc7 8. Ke4 Rb6 9. Kf3
17 20:28 -- 1. exf6
17 89:06 -12.31 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 Rxa5 4. f5 Kf6 5. Ke2 Ke5
6. Ke1 Ra8 7. Kf1 Kd4 8. Ke2 <HT>
17-> 96:58 -12.31 1. exf6 Ke8 2. f7+ Kxf7 3. Bxa5 Rxa5 4. f5 Kf6 5. Ke2 Ke5
6. Ke1 Ra8 7. Kf1 Kd4 8. Ke2 <HT>
18 98:08 -- 1. exf6
18 277:16 -14.69 1. exf6 Ke8 2. Bxe7 gxf4 3. Ke2 Rxe7+ 4. fxe7 Ra7 5. Kf3
Rxe7
6. g5 Kf8 7. Kxf4 Re2 8. Kg4 Rxa2 9. Kxh4 Rb2 10. g6 Rxb3
18 692:55 ++ 1. Bxa5!!
18 866:47 -12.82 1. Bxa5 dxe5 2. f5 Rxa5 3. Kd3 Kd6 4. Ke4 Rd7 5. Kd3 Raa7
6. Ke2 Rac7 7. Ke3 Rb7 8. Kd3 Rb6 9. Ke3 Rd8
18-> 872:25 -12.82 1. Bxa5 dxe5 2. f5 Rxa5 3. Kd3 Kd6 4. Ke4 Rd7 5. Kd3 Raa7
6. Ke2 Rac7 7. Ke3 Rb7 8. Kd3 Rb6 9. Ke3 Rd8
Crafty needs 18 plies to realize, that 1.exf5 is worse then 13.7 .
Of course 1.Bxa5 loses also, but it is beyond the horizon.
It's disappointing, that after 14 hours Crafty does not see the loss after Bxa5.
To find the reason I analysed the position
after 1.Bxa4+ Kxa4 2.b3+ Kb5 3.c4+ Kc6 4.d5+ Kd7 and now 5.Bxa5? dxe5 6.f5 Rxa5
:
9 0.83 -12.68 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Rc8 3. Kf3 Rca8 <HT>
9-> 0.84 -12.68 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Rc8 3. Kf3 Rca8 <HT>
10 2.30 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Ra6 4. Ke3 Raa8 5. Kf3 Rd8
10-> 2.31 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Ra6 4. Ke3 Raa8 5. Kf3 Rd8
11 5.18 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Raa8 4. Ke3 Rd8 5. Ke4 Rac8 6.
Ke3
11-> 5.18 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Raa8 4. Ke3 Rd8 5. Ke4 Rac8 6.
Ke3
12 11.60 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Raa8 4. Ke3 Re8 5. Kf3 Red8
6. Ke3 Rac8
12-> 11.61 -12.78 1. Ke3 Rb8 2. Kf2 Kd6 3. Kf3 Raa8 4. Ke3 Re8 5. Kf3 Red8
6. Ke3 Rac8
13 31.55 -12.80 1. Ke3 Kd6 2. Kf2 Ra8 3. Kf3 Rd7 4. Ke4 Rf8 5. Kf3 Rf7
6. Ke3 Rf8 <HT>
13-> 33.73 -12.80 1. Ke3 Kd6 2. Kf2 Ra8 3. Kf3 Rd7 4. Ke4 Rf8 5. Kf3 Rf7
6. Ke3 Rf8 <HT>
14 1:30 -12.80 1. Ke3 Kd6 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Ke3 Rd7 4. Ke4 Rf8 5. Kf3 Rfd8
<HT>
14-> 1:30 -12.80 1. Ke3 Kd6 2. Ke4 Ra8 3. Ke3 Rd7 4. Ke4 Rf8 5. Kf3 Rfd8
<HT>
15 3:49 -12.96 1. Ke3 Ra6 2. Kf3 e6 3. fxe6+ Rxe6 4. dxe6+ Kxe6 5. Kf2 Rd7
6. Ke2 Rd4 7. Ke1 Rd3 8. Ke2 Rxh3 9. Kd2 Rxb3
15-> 3:51 -12.96 1. Ke3 Ra6 2. Kf3 e6 3. fxe6+ Rxe6 4. dxe6+ Kxe6 5. Kf2 Rd7
6. Ke2 Rd4 7. Ke1 Rd3 8. Ke2 Rxh3 9. Kd2 Rxb3
16 3:56 -- 1. Ke3
16 13:26 -15.87 1. Ke3 Ra6 2. Kf3 e4+ 3. Kxe4 e6 4. fxe6+ Rxe6+ 5. dxe6+
Kxe6
6. Kd3 Ke5 7. Kd2 Ke4 8. Kc2 Rd7 9. Kc1 <HT>
16-> 14:13 -15.87 1. Ke3 Ra6 2. Kf3 e4+ 3. Kxe4 e6 4. fxe6+ Rxe6+ 5. dxe6+
Kxe6
6. Kd3 Ke5 7. Kd2 Ke4 8. Kc2 Rd7 9. Kc1 <HT>
17 14:52 -- 1. Ke3
It takes 16 (or 20) plies to get the value below 13.7 .
Conclusion: The study is too hard for computers (I used a PII 333 MHz Hash
48M/32M).
Perhaps it is possible to solve the position after 4 moves.
Question: Does anybody have better results with other programs?
Maybe better knowledge about passed pawns can save some plies.
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