Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 23:47:11 08/14/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 14, 2000 at 09:21:59, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 13, 2000 at 14:41:24, Dave Gomboc wrote: > >>On August 12, 2000 at 00:06:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2000 at 23:50:19, Dave Gomboc wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2000 at 13:30:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 11:40:26, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 08:59:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 02:31:00, Yar wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 01:57:40, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 11, 2000 at 00:38:18, Yar wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This game was played on ICC. Blueflame used crafty v17.9 with all 4-man TB's + >>>>>>>>>>KQPKQ + KRPKR according to his fingernotes PII 400Mhz, spacechess Chess Tiger >>>>>>>>>>v12.0en PII-350Mhz time control 15-5. Have a look at the blunder made by >>>>>>>>>>blueflame in the endgame >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>[Event "ICC u 15 5 2000.08.23"] >>>>>>>>>>[Site "Internet Chess Club"] >>>>>>>>>>[Date "2000.08.23"] >>>>>>>>>>[Round "-"] >>>>>>>>>>[White "BlueFlame"] >>>>>>>>>>[Black "SpaceChess"] >>>>>>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2542"] >>>>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2579"] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 >>>>>>>>>>6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3 Qc7 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. g4 b5 >>>>>>>>>>11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5 Nd7 13. a3 Rb8 14. Bh3 Nc5 15. Rhg1 b4 >>>>>>>>>>16. axb4 Rxb4 17. f5 Qb7 18. f6 gxf6 19. gxf6 Bf8 20. b3 a5 >>>>>>>>>>21. Qe3 h5 22. Kb1 Bd7 23. e5 a4 24. Na2 Rb6 25. b4 Qe4 >>>>>>>>>>26. Rge1 Qxe3 27. Rxe3 Bh6 28. Re2 d5 29. Kb2 Bf8 30. c3 Bh6 >>>>>>>>>>31. Ka3 Nb3 32. Nxb3 axb3 33. Kxb3 Bb5 34. Rg2 Bf4 35. Re1 Kd7 >>>>>>>>>>36. Kc2 Rc6 37. Rg7 Rf8 38. Rh7 d4 39. Bf1 Bxf1 40. Rxf1 Bxe5 >>>>>>>>>>41. Rxh5 Ra8 42. Rxe5 Rxa2+ 43. Kb3 Rxh2 44. cxd4 Rd2 45. Rf4 Rd1 >>>>>>>>>>46. Rc5 Rb6 47. Kc2 Ra1 48. d5 exd5 49. Rxd5+ Ke6 50. Rc5 Kd6 >>>>>>>>>>51. Rcc4 Rba6 52. Kd3 Rd1+ 53. Ke2 Raa1 54. Rce4 Rab1 55. Kf3 Rh1 >>>>>>>>>>56. Re7 Kd5 57. Re2 Rbf1+ 58. Rf2 Ke5 59. Rc4 Rh3+ 60. Kg2 Rxf2+ >>>>>>>>>>61. Kxf2 Kxf6 62. b5 Rb3 63. Rc6+ Ke5 64. b6 f5 65. Ke2 Kd5 >>>>>>>>>>66. Rh6 Kc5 67. Rf6 Rxb6 68. Rxf5+ Kd4 69. Rf8 Rb3 70. Rh8 Re3+ >>>>>>>>>>71. Kf2 Ra3 72. Rg8 Rb3 73. Rh8 Ke4 74. Rg8 Rf3+ 75. Kg2 Rf7 >>>>>>>>>>76. Rh8 Rf4 77. Rg8 Ke3 78. Rh8 Rg4+ 79. Kh3 Rg1 80. Rf8 Kd4 >>>>>>>>>>81. Rd8+ Ke4 82. Re8+ Kf4 83. Rf8+ Ke3 84. Re8+ Kd3 85. Rd8+ Kc4 >>>>>>>>>>86. Rc8+ Kd5 87. Rd8+ Ke6 88. Re8+ Kd7 89. Rf8 Kd6 90. Rd8+ Kc7 >>>>>>>>>>91. Rf8 Rg6 92. Rh8 Kd6 93. Rf8 Kd5 94. Rh8 Kd4 95. Rf8 Ra6 >>>>>>>>>>96. Rh8 Ra1 97. Rg8 Ke4 98. Re8+ Kf4 99. Rf8+ Ke5 100. Re8+ Kd4 >>>>>>>>>>101. Rd8+ Ke3 102. Re8+ Kf3 103. Rf8+ Ke2 104. Re8+ Kd3 105. Rd8+ Kc4 >>>>>>>>>>106. Rc8+ Kd5 107. Rd8+ Ke6 108. Re8+ Kd7 109. Rg8 Kd6 110. Rd8+ Ke7 >>>>>>>>>>111. Rg8 Kf7 112. Rd8 Rg1 113. Rd7+ Ke6 114. Rd8 Ke5 115. Re8+ Kf4 >>>>>>>>>>116. Rf8+ Ke4 117. Re8+ Kf3 118. Rh8 Rh1# 0-1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>without looking on the game but only looking on the moves I see a draw by the 50 >>>>>>>>>move rule. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>White can ask for a draw and stop the clock when it plays 118.Rh8 and claim a >>>>>>>>>draw by the 50 move rule. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I guess that Blueflame did not know to ask for a draw by the 50 move rule and >>>>>>>>>that this is the reason that it lost. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>blueflame had 9+ minutes on his clock >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This is just a timing hole in dealing with the chess server. Crafty does this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>plays the move that hits the 50-move rule (both sides have now played 50 moves >>>>>>>without a pawn push or capture). It then sends the draw claim. But lag >>>>>>>prevents the draw claim from arriving at the chess server before the opponent >>>>>>>makes a move. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In a 50 move rule game, _any_ move is good enough to get the draw, including >>>>>>>a move that hangs a rook or leaves you open to a mate in 1. Unfortunately, on >>>>>>>a chess server, playing such a move leaves you exposed to the tiny timing hole >>>>>>>mentioned above... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You have to be sure your move _and_ draw claim arrive before the opponent can >>>>>>>play a move that beats you. Since the move and draw claim are sent separately, >>>>>>>there is no way to guarantee this. >>>>>> >>>>>>The rules say that your claim must come first. I do not know how the ICS handle >>>>>>this but FIDE's laws are quite sure on this point. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ref. from Fide: http://handbook.fide.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>>E.I. Laws of Chess >>>>>> >>>>>>9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, if >>>>>> >>>>>>a) he writes on his scoresheet, and declares to the arbiter his intention to >>>>>>make a move which shall result in the last 50 moves having been made by each >>>>>>player without the movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece, or >>>>>>b) the last 50 consecutive moves have been made by each player without the >>>>>>movement of any pawn and without the capture of any piece. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Odd Gunnar Malin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Chess servers don't work like that. By making a move, you automatically >>>>>"press your clock." It the perfect API might be to have a <press> command >>>> >>>>Right, so the "draw" should be sent before the "[move]" -- if the chess server >>>>is programmed properly to accept it, anyway. >>>> >>>>Dave >>> >>> >>>That won't work. If it isn't a forced draw, then "draw" simply offers the >>>opponent a draw, which he can decline. You _must_ make the move to satisfy >>>the 50 move rule first, otherwise it will not work properly. >>> >>>Just a glitch in the API design. And now since everybody is trying to fix it, >>>but in different ways, it is still going to be unusable for programs that play >>>on various servers. Eventually we need a patch for xboard to tell us which >>>server we are on so we know how to properly claim such draws. Which is really >>>an ugly solution when you think about how it _ought_ to be solved... on the >>>server end, uniformly. >> >>The FIDE 50-move rule is clearly satisfied after 99 plys without a capture have >>occured. The implementations just don't conform. > >Don't you mean 100 plies here? 50 move requires that 50 moves by _both_ sides >must be made without a capture or pawn move. No, it was changed to be similar to the three-time repetition rule. The current rule is that you can claim a draw by indicating both your desire to do so and which move you will play to reach a position where 100 plies have gone by without a capture or pawn push, just as you can claim a repetition draw by indicating both your desire to do so and which move you will play to reach a position that has occured three (or more) times with the same side to move, same castling rights, and same en passant rights. Dave
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