Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:43:12 08/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 17, 2000 at 05:19:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On August 17, 2000 at 01:38:32, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 16, 2000 at 18:55:43, Marcus Kaestner wrote: >> >>>>>be sure that the improvement of the chessbase engines lay far behind rebel or >>>>>shredder for example. >>>> >>>>Did you test all the chessbase engines to be sure about it? >>>>Did chessbase send you their latest versions? >>>> >>> >>>the answer is very easy: >>>if they want to have a realistic chance, fritz has to gain a minimum improvement >>>of 50 elo, junior has to gain a minimum of 100 elo. >>> >>>i know for sure that this is not the case. >> >>How do you know? >>Did the programmers tell you that it is not the case? >>> >>>so chessbase will hardly be able to win the title. >>> >>>marcus >> >>Based on previous post of Amir Ban Frans Morsch is the most unrespected >>programmer and amir also claimed that he is most likely going to release an >>atomic bomb in his next version. > >I think progress on DIEP is most (but had to win a lot of terrain also), >progress has been made clearly by Stefan Meyer Kahlen, Amir Ban and Frans >Morsch. SOS heavily improved, Zchess heavily improved, and most likely >Rebel also improved if the comments of Jeroen Noomen are taken into >account for Rebel. I don't doubt that Tiger will be improved and >most likely Insomniac last time i played it (1999 at dutch champs) also >will be heavily improved. > >So with all respect. All programs are obviously going to be improved, >where the stronger engine makers make more sound when making a small improvement >it must be said that some stronger engines you need to work weeks to get >a 1% speedup or to get 10 rating points. History has proven so, advancing >at the top is real hard. No 100 points will be won here easily. > >This where especially the rest that was clealry below all this is >getting up real quick. The real questions now are of course: do they >have a real weak point yet? > >Engines with a real weak point are gonna have a problem, Also if their >book is real weak you have a real problem. > >No matter how an engine improved, take for example crafty, if book is >weak then you can usually already shake it, as in some programs level >really has gone up there. > >Personally i think openingsbook as made by Jeroen Noomen are giving >the best tournament preparement, though the strategical lines in shredder >also give clear positions where shredder is having a positional finer >position (but hard to call that killerlines). > >This year there will be some real strong programs with books based >upon either old lines or automatically generated lines. Here the Kure >book is giving a deadly advantage, as it's the best to litterary kill >those old/automatically generated lines. > >>Based on this information I will not be surprised if Fritz's version is 100 elo >>better than Fritz6. > >That's the biggest nonsense i ever heart. Fritz will never get up 100 >points easily. Frans would have worked years for nothing otherwise and >then suddenly within a few months he gets up 100? > >Only when the version before that first got down 100! > >>I will be surprised if fritz's version is less than 50 elo better than Fritz6 >>because of Amir's post. > >Amir is commercial obviously. He needs to drum to the world. I doubt it's >50 rating points better as the previous version, unless the previous version >was not his best version from the past times. > >>My guess for the first 3 places in order to win chessbase8 was: >>1)Fritz >>2)Shredder >>3)Crafty > >Why do you place crafty that high, considering it has a real weak point? > >>I guess that all these programs are more than 50 elo better than fritz6 when in >>the case of crafty the main reason is better hardware. > >Crafty played at even more superb hardware at the WMCC 1997. No it didn't. we played on a plain 21164 at 600mhz. Remember that we didn't have one of the Kryo machines at all, just a plain (and not fast) alpha. > >>I guess that Rebel,Tiger and Nimzo8 and maybe Junior are also better than >>fritz6. > >I don't give a penny for the nimzo engine. I'd die to get my hands on >a legal usage of the nimzo book however. It isn't tuned to play the >opening itself other than a few single lines it plays. Nimzo is an aggressive >engine that's real good tuned, but i'm everything but impressed. > >Especially knowing the comments of its maker upon how he sees >computerchess : "nimzo improved only in playing strength when i REMOVED >knowledge", we can assume that unless he has come back to that statement, >that the engine will not have more knowledge. > >>Uri
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