Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:27:51 08/26/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 26, 2000 at 09:58:43, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On August 26, 2000 at 09:45:41, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 26, 2000 at 09:30:33, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On August 26, 2000 at 09:07:23, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 26, 2000 at 08:53:45, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>> >>>>>Shredder won the WMCCC, and even if there is an important luck factor in any 9 >>>>>rounds event, the fact that it won for the second consecutive time, together >>>>>with the quality of its games, makes quite clear that sheer luck was not the >>>>>reason for Shredder's success. In my opinion, Shredder is the strongest in the >>>>>endgame and, together with Junior, has probably the best evaluation functions of >>>>>all programs. On the other hand, it lacks the search speed of Fritz, Tiger, >>>>>Nimzo and The King. >>>> >>>>Are you sure about it? >>>>Stefan told me that one of the things that he worked about was tactics. >>> >>>The new Shredder has improved a lot in tactics, among other things, and Shredder >>>5 will be improved further, but it is still far in this regard from the very >>>fast searchers. >>> >>>>My chessmaster6000(ss=10) needed some hours to avoid Qxb4 >>>>r3rb1k/6p1/p2p3p/1ppb4/PB6/5NRP/1q3PP1/1B1QR1K1 b - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>I think that Fritz will also have problems with this position and my >>>>only program that can avoid Qxb4 is Junior5.9 (and I guess that also Junior6a). >>>> >>>><snipped> >>>>>Shortly before London, I played these games with Shredder 4.22 on 2 P600E >>>>>machines with 256MB RAM and the same WMCCC time controls. S4.22 beat neatly the >>>>>other 2 betas I made it play against, by 6-0 in one of the matches. The overall >>>>>results were great, and the final Shredder 5 will be even better, I'm sure of >>>>>it. Enjoy. >>>> >>>>I do not see 6-0 in the games that you posted but only draws against Fritz6b and >>>>Junior6a. >>> >>>I don't post beta games, unless the programmer gives his permission. >>> >>>>It is a disappointing result after the impressive result in WMCCC. >>> >>>It is not disappointing at all to tie against Fritz and Junior. If you add up >>>the great results against the 2 betas I mentioned, then you have that Shredder >>>did very well in my games. I have been not surpised at all at Shredder's >>>performance in London. I expected it to do very well in there and I'm glad it >>>did. >> >>After knowing that Shredder won the WMCCC people could expect Shredder to win >>Junior6a and Fritz6b because My guess was that Fritz6 beta is better than >>Fritz6b(I understood that Fritz6b is available with the young talents) > >It is. > >>I also remember the prediction by Marcus Kästner that chessbase is not going to >>win because other programs(probably Shredder) are at least 50 elo better than >>Fritz6a. > >The X program of Marcus wasn't Shredder. I do not know if X played in the tournament and I did not talk about X. Marcus said that Fritz needs to be at least 50 elo better in order to win the tournament and I guess that he meant that Shredder is at least 50 elo better than Fritz6a. I also remember that he agreed with the prediction of thorsten: Rebel,Shredder,Fritz. I guess that he menat that both Rebel and shredder are at least 50 elo better than Fritz6a. > >>after reading it everything that is less than a win for Shredder is >>disappointing. > >That's irrational. Shredder is great, but not invincible. These top programs are >very close to each other. Shredder should be better than Fritz6b and Junior6a in order to have equal chances to Fritz(london) The draws against Fritz6b and Junior6a do not prove that it is not better(there are not enough games) but they are disappointing if you assume that shredder and Fritz6(london) are in the same level. Uri
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