Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 08:16:30 08/26/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 26, 2000 at 10:27:51, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 26, 2000 at 09:58:43, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>On August 26, 2000 at 09:45:41, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 26, 2000 at 09:30:33, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>> >>>>On August 26, 2000 at 09:07:23, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 26, 2000 at 08:53:45, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Shredder won the WMCCC, and even if there is an important luck factor in any 9 >>>>>>rounds event, the fact that it won for the second consecutive time, together >>>>>>with the quality of its games, makes quite clear that sheer luck was not the >>>>>>reason for Shredder's success. In my opinion, Shredder is the strongest in the >>>>>>endgame and, together with Junior, has probably the best evaluation functions of >>>>>>all programs. On the other hand, it lacks the search speed of Fritz, Tiger, >>>>>>Nimzo and The King. >>>>> >>>>>Are you sure about it? >>>>>Stefan told me that one of the things that he worked about was tactics. >>>> >>>>The new Shredder has improved a lot in tactics, among other things, and Shredder >>>>5 will be improved further, but it is still far in this regard from the very >>>>fast searchers. >>>> >>>>>My chessmaster6000(ss=10) needed some hours to avoid Qxb4 >>>>>r3rb1k/6p1/p2p3p/1ppb4/PB6/5NRP/1q3PP1/1B1QR1K1 b - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>I think that Fritz will also have problems with this position and my >>>>>only program that can avoid Qxb4 is Junior5.9 (and I guess that also Junior6a). >>>>> >>>>><snipped> >>>>>>Shortly before London, I played these games with Shredder 4.22 on 2 P600E >>>>>>machines with 256MB RAM and the same WMCCC time controls. S4.22 beat neatly the >>>>>>other 2 betas I made it play against, by 6-0 in one of the matches. The overall >>>>>>results were great, and the final Shredder 5 will be even better, I'm sure of >>>>>>it. Enjoy. >>>>> >>>>>I do not see 6-0 in the games that you posted but only draws against Fritz6b and >>>>>Junior6a. >>>> >>>>I don't post beta games, unless the programmer gives his permission. >>>> >>>>>It is a disappointing result after the impressive result in WMCCC. >>>> >>>>It is not disappointing at all to tie against Fritz and Junior. If you add up >>>>the great results against the 2 betas I mentioned, then you have that Shredder >>>>did very well in my games. I have been not surpised at all at Shredder's >>>>performance in London. I expected it to do very well in there and I'm glad it >>>>did. >>> >>>After knowing that Shredder won the WMCCC people could expect Shredder to win >>>Junior6a and Fritz6b because My guess was that Fritz6 beta is better than >>>Fritz6b(I understood that Fritz6b is available with the young talents) >> >>It is. >> >>>I also remember the prediction by Marcus Kästner that chessbase is not going to >>>win because other programs(probably Shredder) are at least 50 elo better than >>>Fritz6a. >> >>The X program of Marcus wasn't Shredder. > >I do not know if X played in the tournament and I did not talk about X. > >Marcus said that Fritz needs to be at least 50 elo better in order to win the >tournament and I guess that he meant that Shredder is at least 50 elo better >than Fritz6a. Again: Marcus' X was not Shredder. More: none of us had enough time to be sure about any program being 50 points better than Fritz. And even if we did, a 9 games event has a margin of error much, much bigger than 50 points. So ir was all guessing, educated guessing, but guessing. >I also remember that he agreed with the prediction of thorsten: >Rebel,Shredder,Fritz. > >I guess that he menat that both Rebel and shredder are at least 50 elo better >than Fritz6a. I would disagree, strongly. >>>after reading it everything that is less than a win for Shredder is >>>disappointing. >> >>That's irrational. Shredder is great, but not invincible. These top programs are >>very close to each other. > >Shredder should be better than Fritz6b and Junior6a in order to have equal >chances to Fritz(london) > >The draws against Fritz6b and Junior6a do not prove that it is not better(there >are not enough games) but they are disappointing if you assume that shredder and >Fritz6(london) are in the same level. > >Uri Uri: put things together. S4.22 tied against F6b and J6a, crushed Z 6-0 and beat Y neatly. Altogether, I find it impressive. Enrique
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