Author: Amir Ban
Date: 08:47:22 12/04/97
Go up one level in this thread
On December 04, 1997 at 10:54:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>I'm not sure what this means, but "junior" is non-trademarkable and
>>>non-copyrightable. It has already been used far too many times on
>>>different
>>>products.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>My IP attorney thinks differently.
>>
>>You may have a wrong idea of what the law on marks and trademarks says.
>>It's generally ok to use the same name in different fields when no
>>confusion can occur, and you are not trying to use someone else's
>>reputation. This happens all the time. Just try to think how many things
>>in different fields you know which are called "zip". Also, if you
>>thought "Windows" was an operating system, go into the glassware section
>>of a department store and see that it is a popular label there.
>>
>>As for the name being generic, did you notice that there is a company
>>called Microsoft that for every one of its products tries to think of
>>the most generic name possible to describe it ("Windows", "Word",
>>"Office", "Money", "Works", "Schedule", "Access", etc.) ? Just try using
>>these words for a product with the same purpose and see what letter you
>>get from Bill's lawyers.
>>
>>Of course it's copyrightable, that has nothing to do with the name.
>>
>>Amir
>
>With but one counter-example, I will "rest my case".
>
> Can you spell "word perfect"???
>
>Oh yes...
>
> Can you spell "X windows"?
>
>*neither* has been sued, because the "generic" words can be used as a
>part
>of a name and can *not* be copyrighted. You are on the wrong track. If
>you call your program junior, and sell it, and I later call my program
>junior, you might have a chance, *if* you have trademarked it. But this
>requires a series of actions on your part, *not* just writing a program
>and naming it. I formed a company here several years ago and went
>through
>the trademark process to trademark our name and logo. It took time and
>a good bit of *money* to do so.
>
You may be right about those examples, but all of them are of old
established names that preceded the Microsoft product. May have been
impractical or legally impossible to shove them out.
>But back to this scenario... you might have a case on the name
>"junior",
>but you have no prayer on fighting "deep blue junior" because they are
>(1) a tad better known than your program;
Sadly I think you are right here, although I'm doing my best to catch
up. Maybe I can even get Sharansky interested in playing against Junior
now :( This is the best reason to fight them, by the way. For a large
corporation to try to drown out an old and low-financed established
entry based on nothing more than money, a giant PR machine and a whim is
exactly why the law provides protection.
>(2) they are not using your
>program's name, they are using the adjective "junior" to indicate that
>this is a weaker version of their program. IBM could certainly point to
>their "PC junior" product of 10 years ago or so to show they have done
>this
>in the past, just as they could point out "Cray Blitz Junior" or any
>other
>number of them.
>
>You *can not* claim a word in the English Language and prevent someone
>else
>from using it, which is why we have trademark laws. You can claim
>"junior"
>by itself, but you can't prevent anyone else from using it. IE imagine
>the
>chaos of my writing a program and calling it chess, because you could
>then
>not say "Junior chess program" on the box. That'd be stupid...
>
>Have fun trying to bug them about it, but I'd make a small wager that
>IBM
>has enough lawyers, make that enough *good* lawyers, than you end up
>roasted on their dinner table. I wouldn't try to start that fight...
I know who I'm dealing here with, and it's already started. So far they
have been as evasive and non-committal as I expected them to be. But
it's on record, and I'm watching what happens. There are some reports
that they are now calling the thing "Baby Blue" but I am not sure of
this.
Amir
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