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Subject: Re: DIEP in WMCCC2000 London - long story

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 15:04:11 08/29/00

Go up one level in this thread


Oh duh i forgot dudes that teach at universities or can research
without doing a thing. Especially in countries like Japan it's popular
thing to invent something existing as they have problems reading english.

On August 29, 2000 at 17:59:29, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On August 29, 2000 at 14:50:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 29, 2000 at 13:26:36, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On August 29, 2000 at 12:21:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think that the pairing in the last round was fair because
>>>>zchess had weaker opponents than Sos(even after the last round I found that Sos
>>>>had a better opponents score.
>>>>
>>>>The sum of Sos opponent score is 39.5 when the sum of zchess oppont score was
>>>>only 36.
>>>
>>>This is all peanuts compared to playing for the world title. Note
>>>that SOP is not a real fair comparision measure. It's just a method.
>>>It doesn't say much significant.
>>>
>>>The most significant thing is how many points you have. what they did now
>>>was pairing zchess against shredder and giving SOS a free point.
>>>
>>>If zchess would win against shredder then it would not get the
>>>amateur title but the overall title as well IMHO.
>>>
>>>Before the 8th round you don't know anything about who you play in
>>>the 9th round when your name is SOS and zchess. SOS was lucky to have
>>>a few SOP more. The pairing IS ridicioulous considering that it was
>>>changed the rounds before that in favour of junior for simpel reasons.
>>
>>I disagree.
>>
>>Junior played only against one weak program pqexpert when part of the programs
>>above Junior played against the 2 weakest players.
>
>>I did not find that chessbase earned from the pairing(the opposite- they
>>suffered from the pairing).
>
>Yes by the last round pairing SOS would get the world title for free,
>if not then fritz would tie at least with shredder as either of the
>both would get eliminated.
>
>>If you calculate the deserved rating you will find that chessbase deserved
>>better place for Junior and nimzo.
>
>Junior deserved another few points less. At least 1 against DIEP it
>got for free. Nimzo only won games on book. Are that deserved points
>too?
>
>>I did it(I assumed that the result repeat again and again and found that the
>>order of programs by rating give better place for Junior and nimzo,Sos deserved
>>worse place but it is only because of the fact that nimzo suffered from the
>>pairing)
>
>> >
>>>Now we don't know who is better. SOS or Zchess?
>>
>>We could not know by one tournament who is better but the tournament suggests
>>that Sos is better.
>
>SOS sure isn't weak, but there is no doubt here: SOS had to be paired
>with Zchess.
>
>>We have information about other results.
>>Zchess lost against Fritz when Sos drew with Fritz.
>
>Same book against same book. SOS versus fritz was the same book
>getting into an opposite bishop ending. Zchess was killed by the book.
>He wouldn't play Bc4 again with zchess.
>
>>Zchess drew with Junior when Sos almost won Junior(it could win Junior if it had
>>the KQP vs KQ tablebases)
>
>Another lucky game for Junior. As i said i really regret i was so asleep.
>
>><snipped>
>>>>Sos is sold as part of the young talent and by definition is a professional
>>>>program.
>>>
>>>I'm sure that Rudolf didn't get rich by this deal.
>>
>>This is not the point.
>>I do not support entry fee of 500$ for professional programs because I know that
>>professionals are not rich.
>>I only think that the organizers should follow their definitions of
>>professional.
>
>I wonder who got all that money. Let's see:
>   Let's say about 4000$ they got for entry fee?
>
>That without any prize money to pay!!!
>
>>If the definition of professional is based on money then I suggest that they
>>will give another definition(for example programmer who earned at least 10000$
>>from their commercial program).
>
>Oh well, i see it this way
>  - there is no prize money so only costs are the rent of the room.
>    the room was rented anyway so this could be done low budget.
>  - any huge entry fee will always prevent certain programmers from entering.
>
>Just don't give them an excuse to be away.
>
>><snipped>
>>>Oh well when chessbase can make some money i'm sure they don't care that
>>>Rudolf might possibly pay more money entry fee. That's not exactly
>>>chessbase style. Ask them how 'well' they cared for Frans Morsch, Alex Kure
>>>and Amir Ban.
>>
>>I believe that if Amir Ban,Frans Morsch or Alex Kure do not like the way that
>>chessbase cared for them they can stop working for chessbase.
>
>If world would be that simple. How does frans morsch sell his program?
>No normal dude in the world realizes for example that Chessica and
>Fritz are the same program. Only the few freaks here at CCC might know it.
>
>If you sign for such a thing you're tight. I'm sure it's hard to get away
>then. It would take a lot of time for most to develop their own interface
>anyway, or find a new interface (not many around). Some probably have
>signed also for exclusivity or are tied by one or another contract.
>
>Life is not THAT simple Uri.
>
>>It is not a secret that Amir Ban has a full time job not in computer chess and I
>>believe that there are less than 5 people in the world who can live from
>>computer chess.
>
>Oh well let's count
>  - 20 salesmanagers/owners from chessbase
>  - 10 salesmanagers/owners from millennium chess system
>  - 40 (?) sales managers from chessmanager (just guessed 40)
>  - 10 (?) programmers
>
>I still didn't add Seifritz and other similar dudes to that.
>
>I guess we end up in total with a 100 people or so.
>
>That's pretty little compared to other games, not to mention if we
>look to luxury things as sportcars.
>
>>Uri



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