Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:36:22 12/08/97
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 1997 at 12:52:18, Ed Schröder wrote: Is this perhaps similar to a problem I always have? IE people like to customize the books they use, then play in something like the Korrespondence Kup and out pops some bizarre move I have never seen before. I'd hope that the SSDF guys play with a stock book, but who knows. If rebel 8 and 9 are compatible, could they get the books mixed up? If it can go wrong, it obviously will go wrong, based on my experiences... :) >>Posted by Howard Exner on December 08, 1997 at 03:07:29: > >>Thanks again for the games. Out of curiousity did Bo Aurell >>save the positions or make a note of which games where Rebel 9 >>could not take advantage in the endgame? > >>I did come across one game of interest of Junior 4.0(P-100) >>vs Rebel 9(200MMX) where the game was adjudicated a win >>for Junior. Here is the position at the end of the game: > >>1k6/8/P1K2p2/8/3BP3/6b1/8/8 b - - id"Junior4 P100 - Rebel9 P200MMX" > >>This is one of those infamous bishop endings where the >>drawing theme of the wrong colored rook pawn might emerge. >>It would have been interesting to let this one play out to >>a decisive win (if one can be found by the machines). > >True, white will have a hard time to win this game. Only Amir can >say if Junior is able to win this game. > >But there is more... > >From the games from the SSDF site Jeroen reported the following 6 >incomprehensible games from Rebel8 and Rebel9 which Jeroen and I >were unable to reproduce. > >----------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Black "Rebel8 P100"] >[Result "1-0"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "D11"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 e6 4. e3 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 >8. Bd3 a6 9. e4 c5 10. e5 cxd4 11. Nxb5 Ng4 12. Qa4 Bb7 13. Nd6+ Bxd6 >14. >exd6 Qb6 15. Qxd4 Nge5 16. Qxb6 Nxd3+ 17. Kd2 Nxb6 18. Kxd3 Rd8 19. Bf4 >f6 20. Ke2 e5 21. Be3 Nd5 22. Bc5 Nf4+ 23. Kf1 Rc8 24. Be3 Kd7 25. Bxf4 >exf4 26. Nd4 g6 27. f3 Kxd6 28. Kf2 Rhe8 29. g3 fxg3+ 30. hxg3 Re7 31. >Rad1 Bd5 32. Rd2 Rce8 33. b4 Kc7 34. a4 Kb7 35. b5 Rc8 36. Rb1 Rc3 37. >a5 Rd7 38. Rdb2 Rc5 39. bxa6+ Kxa6 40. Rb8 f5 41. R1b2 Bb7 42. Rb6+ Ka7 >43. R8xb7+ Rxb7 44. Nc6+ Rxc6 45. Rxc6 Rb5 46. Rc7+ Ka6 47. Rxh7 Rc5 48. >Rg7 Rc6 49. Kg2 Kxa5 50. f4 Kb5 51. Kh3 Kc5 52. Kh4 Kd4 53. Kg5 Rc5 54. >Rxg6 Ke4 55. g4 fxg4+ 56. Kxg4 Rc2 57. Re6+ Kd5 58. f5 Rf2 59. Re1 Kd4 >60. Kg5 Kd5 61. f6 Kd6 62. Kg6 Rg2+ 63. Kf7 Kd7 64. Kf8 Rf2 65. f7 1-0 > >Nowhere in the Rebel9 book you will find 13.Nd6+ >The Rebel9 book continues with 13.Nbxd4 > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel8 P100"] >[Black "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Result "1-0"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "D10"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. cxd5 cxd5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bf4 Bf5 7. e3 e6 >8. Bb5 Bd6 9. Ne5 Rc8 10. Qa4 Bxe5 11. dxe5 Nd7 12. Bxc6 Rxc6 13. Qxa7 >Nc5 14. O-O O-O 15. Ne2 Qb6 16. Qxb6 Rxb6 17. b3 Nd3 18. Nd4 Bg6 19. Bg3 >Ra6 20. f4 Rc8 21. Bh4 Raa8 22. a4 Rc3 23. Be1 Nxe1 24. Rfxe1 Rac8 25. >g4 Bd3 26. f5 exf5 27. gxf5 g6 28. f6 h6 29. Kf2 g5 30. a5 Kh7 31. b4 >Kg6 >32. b5 Ra8 33. Red1 h5 34. Ra2 Bc4 35. Ra4 Rb3 36. e4 Bxb5 37. Nxb5 Rxb5 >38. exd5 Rd8 39. Rad4 Kf5 40. Re1 Rbxd5 41. Rxd5 Rxd5 42. e6 fxe6 43. f7 >Rd8 44. Rb1 Kf6 45. Rxb7 Kg7 46. a6 Rd2+ 47. Kf3 Rxh2 48. a7 Ra2 49. >f8=Q+ >Kxf8 50. Rb8+ Kf7 51. a8=Q Rxa8 52. Rxa8 Kf6 53. Ke4 Kf7 54. Ke5 g4 1-0 > >Nowhere in the Rebel9 book you will find 8..Bd6 >The Rebel9 book continues with 8..Nd7 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel8 P100"] >[Black "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Result "1/2-1/2"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "B17"] > >1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Nf3 Ngf6 6. Ng3 Nb6 7. Be2 >Bg4 8. O-O e6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Bxf3 Be7 11. a4 O-O 12. a5 Nbd5 13. c4 Nb4 >14. Ne2 b6 15. Bg5 bxa5 16. Qa4 Rb8 17. Rfd1 Nd7 18. Bxe7 Qxe7 19. Qxa5 >a6 20. Qc7 Rbc8 21. Qg3 e5 22. Ra5 Rce8 23. b3 f5 24. dxe5 Nxe5 25. Bh5 >g6 26. Nf4 c5 27. Bxg6 Nxg6 28. Nxg6 hxg6 29. Qxg6+ Qg7 30. Qxg7+ Kxg7 >31. Rxc5 Kg6 32. Ra5 Rf6 33. Ra4 Rb8 34. Kh2 f4 35. Rd7 Nc6 36. Rd3 Ne5 >37. Rc3 Rd8 38. Ra2 Rd1 39. c5 Kg5 40. f3 Re6 41. g3 fxg3+ 42. Kxg3 Kf5 >43. h4 Rg6+ 44. Kf2 Rc6 45. Kg3 Rd3 46. Rxd3 Nxd3 47. Ra4 Nxc5 48. Ra5 >Ke6 49. b4 Nb3 50. Rg5 Nd4 51. f4 Kf7 52. Rd5 Rg6+ 53. Kf2 Nb5 54. h5 >Rd6 >55. Rc5 Rb6 56. Rd5 Nc3 57. Ra5 Nb5 58. Kg3 Kg7 59. Kh4 Kh6 60. Kg4 Nd4 >61. Re5 Nc2 62. Re8 Nxb4 63. Rh8+ Kg7 64. Rd8 Kf6 65. Rf8+ Ke7 66. Rg8 >Kf7 67. Ra8 Nc6 68. Kg5 a5 69. f5 Rb8 70. Ra6 Rg8+ 71. Kf4 Rc8 72. h6 >Ke7 >73. Kg5 Kd6 74. Rb6 Rg8+ 75. Kf6 Kc7 76. Rb5 Rg3 77. h7 Rh3 78. Kg7 Rg3+ >79. Kf7 Rh3 80. Kg8 Rg3+ 81. Kf7 Rh3 82. Kg7 Rg3+ 83. Kf6 Rh3 84. Kg7 >1/2-1/2 > >Nowhere in the Rebel9 book you will find 6..Nb6? >The Rebel9 book continues with 6..e6 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Sofar 3 examples for Rebel9. > >Question is which book SSDF used for Rebel 9.0. Certainly not the >Rebel9 standard book. > >But also with the games of Rebel8 something is wrong. > >Also 3 examples... > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Black "Rebel8 P100"] >[Result "1-0"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "D12"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 Bf5 5. cxd5 cxd5 6. Qb3 b6 7. Nc3 e6 >8. Bb5+ Nbd7 9. Ne5 Bg6 10. e4 a6 11. Bc6 dxe4 12. Bg5 Ra7 13. Qa4 e3 >14. >fxe3 Be7 15. Nb5 Bc2 16. b3 h6 17. Nxa7 1-0 > >Nowhere in the Rebel8 book you will find 4..Bf5 on active. >The same applies for 6.. b6?? >The Rebel8 book continues with 6..Qc7 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Black "Rebel8 P100"] >[Result "1/2-1/2"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "C07"] > >1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. Ngf3 cxd4 6. Bc4 Qc5 7. O-O >Bd7 8. b4 Qc7 9. b5 Bb4 10. Bb2 Ne7 11. Bxd4 O-O 12. Be5 Bd6 13. Bxd6 >Qxd6 >14. Ne4 Qc7 15. Qd3 a6 16. a4 Rd8 17. Qd6 Qxd6 18. Nxd6 axb5 19. Nxb7 >Rc8 >20. Bxb5 Rxc2 21. Nd6 Rc5 22. Nd2 Nd5 23. N2e4 Rc7 24. Rfb1 Bxb5 25. >axb5 >Rca7 26. Rxa7 Rxa7 27. Rc1 g6 28. Nc4 Nd7 29. Ned6 Kg7 30. g3 f5 31. Kg2 >Ra8 32. Rb1 N5b6 33. Nxb6 Nxb6 34. Rc1 Kf6 35. Rc6 Rb8 36. Kf3 Nd5 37. >Rc5 Ke7 38. Nc4 Kd7 39. Na3 Kd6 40. Rc1 e5 41. Ke2 e4 42. Rc6+ Kd7 43. >Rc5 Nc7 44. Re5 Ne6 45. Rd5+ Ke7 46. Rd1 Rb7 47. Rb1 Kd6 48. Rb4 Kc5 49. >Rc4+ Kd5 50. Rb4 Nc7 51. Ke3 Kc5 52. Rc4+ Kb6 53. g4 fxg4 54. Rxe4 Ra7 >55. Nc4+ Kxb5 56. Rxg4 Ne6 57. Re4 Nc5 58. Rh4 Re7+ 59. Kf3 Nd3 60. Kg3 >Rd7 61. Ne3 Rf7 62. f3 Ne5 63. Rf4 Rd7 64. Re4 Nd3 65. f4 Nc5 66. Re8 >Ra7 >67. Kf3 Kc6 68. f5 gxf5 69. Rc8+ Kd6 70. Nxf5+ Kd5 71. Ne3+ Kd4 72. Rd8+ >Kc3 73. Nf5 Rf7 74. Kg4 Ne6 75. Rd6 Ng7 76. Ng3 Re7 77. Kg5 Ne8 78. Rd8 >Kb4 79. Nf5 Re6 80. Rd7 Nf6 81. Rf7 Ne4+ 82. Kh4 Nf6 83. Ng3 Rd6 84. Kg5 >h6+ 85. Kxh6 Ng4+ 86. Kg5 Nxh2 87. Nf5 1/2-1/2 > >Nowhere in the Rebel8 book you will find 6..Qc5? >The Rebel8 book continues with 6..Qd6 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "1997.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "Rebel8 P100"] >[Black "Rebel9 P200MMX"] >[Result "1/2-1/2"] >[WhiteElo "?"] >[BlackElo "?"] >[ECO "B33"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 >8. Nxc6 bxc6 9. O-O-O h6 10. Bh4 Bb7 11. f4 Nxe4 12. Nxe4 Qxh4 13. Nxd6+ >Bxd6 14. Qxd6 Qe7 15. Bc4 Qxd6 16. Rxd6 Rd8 17. Rxd8+ Kxd8 18. g3 g5 19. >Rd1+ Ke7 20. Rd3 Rg8 21. Rb3 Bc8 22. Rb8 gxf4 23. gxf4 Kd7 24. Ra8 Rg4 >25. Ra7+ Ke8 26. Ra8 Kd7 27. Ra7+ Ke8 28. Ra8 Kd7 1/2-1/2 > >Nowhere in the Rebel8 book you will find 8.Nxc6 >The Rebel8 book continues with 8.0-0-0 > >So the question arise with which book SSDF tested Rebel8 and Rebel9? >Certainly not the provided commercial books. > >I have sent a copy to Tony and Thoralf. >Perhaps they can explain what is wrong. > >- Ed Schroder -
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