Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 01:12:01 09/06/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 06, 2000 at 02:20:28, Peter McKenzie wrote: >On September 06, 2000 at 01:52:00, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On September 05, 2000 at 18:22:25, Jason Williamson wrote: >> >>>On September 05, 2000 at 18:17:26, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On September 05, 2000 at 17:51:28, Peter McKenzie wrote: >>>> >>>>>How about it Ed & Christophe? >>>> >>>>Hi Peter, >>>> >>>>I haven't changed my mind. There is still no control. Until then... >>>> >>>>Ed >>> >>>What do you mean no control? >> >>That nobody knows the games are 100% real. To gain creditability these >>games should be played in public (on the chess club or so) so everybody >>can see what you are doing. >> >>I understand it's an obstacle but it is my reason not to participate in >>this tournament. The operator can do what he want as there is no control. >>He can override moves, change the time control, force a move he likes and >>and and. >> >>Another way (although it solves not eveything) is that somebody else (the >>TD) is send the program before the games and carefully checks the moves. >> >>I think playing serious tournaments on Internet has a great future. More >>it has the power to become a serious counterpart for the yearly world >>championship computer chess if these kind of things are arranged well. >> >>Ed > >With Internet events, a certain amount of trust is required. I just don't see >any way of getting around that in the near future. > >But consider this: does it really matter if someone tries to cheat?? > >Can an operator really improve a program's performance? Don't forget that the >time control is quite fast (30 10, or 45 10). I think that the programs are so >strong now that even if someone cheated by manually choosing different moves, it >would be very tough to do any better than letting the computer play by itself. > >For every move a human can improve on, there are probably 2 other moves where >they just stuff up. It might be easy to poke holes in computer play AFTER the >game (hindsight is a wonderful thing), but not nearly so easy to do this >confidently DURING the game. > >I guess someone could use another program to cheat with, but really lets not get >too paranoid here. Most of the participants are quite well known in these >circles, and seem to be pretty trustworthy. There are many aspects, I will limit myself to one. Speaking only for myself: I don't want to become into the temptation to cheat. [Q] Do I trust myself? [A] Yes. [Q] Do I COMPLETELY trust myself? [A] No. Here is a story from a long time ago, actually it was my first tournament the WCCC 1986 in Cologne. Playing in the last round Rebel had a winning position and if Rebel would win that game then Rebel was the new world champion all classes. On a given moment it was considering 2 moves, the good move and a losing move. When I saw Rebel was changing its mind to the bad move somebody told me I should press the "force move" button so the good move would have been played. I wasn't willing. Then the person in question moved his hand to the "force move" button and "in a second" I had to decide what to do. I did the right thing and pushed his hand away. Rebel played the bad move and Rebel lost the game. After the game I was called stupid throwing away the title. In that remarkable "second" the option "why not" certainly crossed my mind and I think that nobody is excluded from such temptations when so much is at stake. [Q] What will I do next time? [A] Probably the same So I end as I started: I don't want to become into the temptation to cheat, not anymore. To make Internet tournaments trustworthy you need rules. Ed
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