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Subject: Re: Will Tiger or Rebel play?

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 01:12:01 09/06/00

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On September 06, 2000 at 02:20:28, Peter McKenzie wrote:

>On September 06, 2000 at 01:52:00, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2000 at 18:22:25, Jason Williamson wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2000 at 18:17:26, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2000 at 17:51:28, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>How about it Ed & Christophe?
>>>>
>>>>Hi Peter,
>>>>
>>>>I haven't changed my mind. There is still no control. Until then...
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>
>>>What do you mean no control?
>>
>>That nobody knows the games are 100% real. To gain creditability these
>>games should be played in public (on the chess club or so) so everybody
>>can see what you are doing.
>>
>>I understand it's an obstacle but it is my reason not to participate in
>>this tournament. The operator can do what he want as there is no control.
>>He can override moves, change the time control, force a move he likes and
>>and and.
>>
>>Another way (although it solves not eveything) is that somebody else (the
>>TD) is send the program before the games and carefully checks the moves.
>>
>>I think playing serious tournaments on Internet has a great future. More
>>it has the power to become a serious counterpart for the yearly world
>>championship computer chess if these kind of things are arranged well.
>>
>>Ed
>
>With Internet events, a certain amount of trust is required.  I just don't see
>any way of getting around that in the near future.
>
>But consider this: does it really matter if someone tries to cheat??
>
>Can an operator really improve a program's performance?  Don't forget that the
>time control is quite fast (30 10, or 45 10).  I think that the programs are so
>strong now that even if someone cheated by manually choosing different moves, it
>would be very tough to do any better than letting the computer play by itself.
>
>For every move a human can improve on, there are probably 2 other moves where
>they just stuff up.  It might be easy to poke holes in computer play AFTER the
>game (hindsight is a wonderful thing), but not nearly so easy to do this
>confidently DURING the game.
>
>I guess someone could use another program to cheat with, but really lets not get
>too paranoid here.  Most of the participants are quite well known in these
>circles, and seem to be pretty trustworthy.

There are many aspects, I will limit myself to one.

Speaking only for myself: I don't want to become into the temptation to
cheat.

[Q] Do I trust myself?
[A] Yes.

[Q] Do I COMPLETELY trust myself?
[A] No.

Here is a story from a long time ago, actually it was my first tournament
the WCCC 1986 in Cologne. Playing in the last round Rebel had a winning
position and if Rebel would win that game then Rebel was the new world
champion all classes.

On a given moment it was considering 2 moves, the good move and a losing
move. When I saw Rebel was changing its mind to the bad move somebody told
me I should press the "force move" button so the good move would have been
played. I wasn't willing. Then the person in question moved his hand to the
"force move" button and "in a second" I had to decide what to do. I did the
right thing and pushed his hand away. Rebel played the bad move and Rebel
lost the game. After the game I was called stupid throwing away the title.

In that remarkable "second" the option "why not" certainly crossed my mind
and I think that nobody is excluded from such temptations when so much is
at stake.

[Q] What will I do next time?
[A] Probably the same

So I end as I started: I don't want to become into the temptation to
cheat, not anymore.

To make Internet tournaments trustworthy you need rules.

Ed



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