Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 07:24:18 09/06/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 06, 2000 at 04:12:01, Ed Schröder wrote: >On September 06, 2000 at 02:20:28, Peter McKenzie wrote: > >>On September 06, 2000 at 01:52:00, Ed Schröder wrote: >> >>>On September 05, 2000 at 18:22:25, Jason Williamson wrote: >>> >>>>On September 05, 2000 at 18:17:26, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 05, 2000 at 17:51:28, Peter McKenzie wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>How about it Ed & Christophe? >>>>> >>>>>Hi Peter, >>>>> >>>>>I haven't changed my mind. There is still no control. Until then... >>>>> >>>>>Ed >>>> >>>>What do you mean no control? >>> >>>That nobody knows the games are 100% real. To gain creditability these >>>games should be played in public (on the chess club or so) so everybody >>>can see what you are doing. >>> >>>I understand it's an obstacle but it is my reason not to participate in >>>this tournament. The operator can do what he want as there is no control. >>>He can override moves, change the time control, force a move he likes and >>>and and. >>> >>>Another way (although it solves not eveything) is that somebody else (the >>>TD) is send the program before the games and carefully checks the moves. >>> >>>I think playing serious tournaments on Internet has a great future. More >>>it has the power to become a serious counterpart for the yearly world >>>championship computer chess if these kind of things are arranged well. >>> >>>Ed >> >>With Internet events, a certain amount of trust is required. I just don't see >>any way of getting around that in the near future. >> >>But consider this: does it really matter if someone tries to cheat?? >> >>Can an operator really improve a program's performance? Don't forget that the >>time control is quite fast (30 10, or 45 10). I think that the programs are so >>strong now that even if someone cheated by manually choosing different moves, it >>would be very tough to do any better than letting the computer play by itself. >> >>For every move a human can improve on, there are probably 2 other moves where >>they just stuff up. It might be easy to poke holes in computer play AFTER the >>game (hindsight is a wonderful thing), but not nearly so easy to do this >>confidently DURING the game. >> >>I guess someone could use another program to cheat with, but really lets not get >>too paranoid here. Most of the participants are quite well known in these >>circles, and seem to be pretty trustworthy. > >There are many aspects, I will limit myself to one. > >Speaking only for myself: I don't want to become into the temptation to >cheat. > >[Q] Do I trust myself? >[A] Yes. > >[Q] Do I COMPLETELY trust myself? >[A] No. > >Here is a story from a long time ago, actually it was my first tournament >the WCCC 1986 in Cologne. Playing in the last round Rebel had a winning >position and if Rebel would win that game then Rebel was the new world >champion all classes. > >On a given moment it was considering 2 moves, the good move and a losing >move. When I saw Rebel was changing its mind to the bad move somebody told >me I should press the "force move" button so the good move would have been >played. I wasn't willing. Then the person in question moved his hand to the >"force move" button and "in a second" I had to decide what to do. I did the >right thing and pushed his hand away. Rebel played the bad move and Rebel >lost the game. After the game I was called stupid throwing away the title. > >In that remarkable "second" the option "why not" certainly crossed my mind >and I think that nobody is excluded from such temptations when so much is >at stake. > >[Q] What will I do next time? >[A] Probably the same > >So I end as I started: I don't want to become into the temptation to >cheat, not anymore. > >To make Internet tournaments trustworthy you need rules. > >Ed While it's good that you were able to resist the suggestion (and it's also good that you won in 1992 anyway! :-), not having a "force move" keystroke built into the software in the first place would have prevented any moral dilemmas from arising. Dave
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.