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Subject: Re: Automatic Learning

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:48:18 09/06/00

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On September 06, 2000 at 10:49:03, James T. Walker wrote:

>On September 06, 2000 at 10:35:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2000 at 23:27:23, James T. Walker wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2000 at 16:28:34, William H Rogers wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2000 at 14:37:16, Vladimir Sokolov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It is noticed that many chess programs use automatic learning.
>>>>>If an operator lets his computer run at night, in the weekends and vacations,
>>>>>then after a few weeks, months the learn files will become stronger.
>>>>>Can a weak free program this way become stronger than a raw strong commercial
>>>>>program ?
>>>>>Can programs after a while use moves, lines and strategies that they did not
>>>>>know or were not in their memory or book in the beginning but learned from other
>>>>>programs by playing against them ?
>>>>>Are these moves automatically imported in their books or must the operator
>>>>>import them or run the analysis of the games ?
>>>>>Are there programs running on the chess servers that continuously automatically
>>>>>play against all challengers and how can players import the learning of those
>>>>>programs into their own programs ?
>>>>
>>>>It my understanding,and I may be wrong, that automatic learning only applies to
>>>>the programs opening books, that is their opening books get better with
>>>>automatic learning, and not the program. Some programs can share books but not
>>>>all. Very few, if any, programs change their logical evaluations based upon a
>>>>learning module. If I misunderstood you post, I am sorry, if I did understand
>>>>then I hope that the above explains it to you.
>>>>Bill
>>>
>>>I believe some programs also have learning functions which apply to the middle
>>>game/endgame.  Hiarcs comes to mind.  It has a file for this which grows to 64K
>>>and then stops growing.  I assume it then ejects the oldest positions learned
>>>for the newer ones.
>>>Jim
>>
>>
>>Position learning really won't help in endgames, unless you have a "magic
>>bullet" you can use to reach the same endgame over and over.  In chess, this
>>would be nearly impossible to do.
>>
>>It does help when you get taken out of book, at the same point, repeatedly...
>>That is the reason I implemented it myself.  IE if someone plays 1. a3 and
>>2. h3, everybody will be out of book quickly.  Now you can re-play the same
>>game over and over (on a server) and clean the program's clock by doing so.
>>With position learning, it still will vary enough that this won't work very
>>well.
>
>
>Thanks for your input Bob.  I'm sure you are right about the endgame part.  Also
>I believe it was Nimzo 99 that has the learning file and not Hiarcs.  I believe
>Crafty also has something similiar.
>Jim


Yes.  Dave Slate and Tony Scherzer wrote a paper in the JICCA (about 10 years
ago IIRC) that described exactly what I implemented in Crafty by following their
approach.



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