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Subject: Re: A New CCC Poll Question At Last!!!

Author: pavel

Date: 08:07:09 09/07/00

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On September 07, 2000 at 10:43:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 06, 2000 at 18:50:05, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2000 at 18:32:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 06, 2000 at 17:29:41, Steven Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks to José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba we have a new
>>>>poll question. It appears to be a hot topic here now.
>>>>
>>>>You are invited to vote at the CCC polling site:
>>>>http://www.icdchess.com/ccc/poll/index.shtml
>>>
>>>
>>>I voted for paying more for the beta testers but I think that it is dependent in
>>>the job that they do.
>>>
>>>If the testers do the job that I read that the chessmaster8000 beta testers
>>>did(only playing 30 games against different personalities at fast time control)
>>>then I think that getting the new version is enough(I think that in this case
>>>they also get the real new version)
>>>
>>>If the testers help the programmers by giving ideas and not only play some hours
>>>against the program then it is not enough.
>>>
>>>I could abstain but I felt that I had to vote for the beta testers after I read
>>>the idea that the programmers do the beta testers a favour.
>>>
>>>The beta testers can test the commercial programs and I do not see the big
>>>advantage of getting it some monthes before the release of a new version when
>>>beta testers do not get even it because they get only the beta version that they
>>>test that is usually slightly weaker.
>>>
>>>In my case the fact that I was a beta tester of Junior4.x did not save me from
>>>buying Junior5 in order to test later Junior5.x
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I can add that I do not blame other people for this fact and it is my fault that
>>I tried to give ideas when I was not asked for it but I understand that other
>>people see the job of the beta tester as giving more than games so I had to vote
>>for the beta testers.
>>
>>If there was a clear definition of the beta tester as someone that has a job to
>>work not more than 10-15 hours and give only games then I could vote in a
>>different way.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>I personally believe that there is great misconception in the term "beta
>testing".  The correct details of what is to be done is normally that you
>receive the beta version, and you use it as though it were a production
>version, but with specific error-reporting requirements.  That is how most
>beta testing is done.  In rarer cases, beta testing is used to look for more
>specific things.  IE "will this program install on many different configurations
>of hardware and operating system versions?" which might be hard to answer in a
>lab setting.
>
>"playing a few games at short time controls" is _not_ "beta testing".  Unless
>someone has coined a new beta testing description that is different from the
>SE books I use.
>
>With what I have read here so far, _most_ are not doing beta testing, and
>getting a free copy of a program is probably quite fair.  Some (Uri for
>example) go much deeper into things looking for obvious (or not-so-obvious)
>flaws that need attention.  Spending that much time is definitely worth paying
>for.
>
>It would seem that the current beta testing approach isn't working very well,
>based on the later bugs and bugfix versions released.  The testers aren't
>getting much for their efforts.  The programmers aren't getting a lot of effort
>from the testers.  Seems 'equitable' in a way.  :)

I agree fully with this,
beta-testing is not about playing a bunch of games between computer programs.

If that so then the guys from the chessbase and rebel can do it themselves.
there can be another reason for beta-testers (IMO)----->
for example Christian Koch is a beta-tester for "Gandalf" so he is playing a lot
of games with gandalf against other strong chess playing programs. and then
posting them in public forums, as a result "promoting" the "gandalf" engine in a
way to public. This has nothing to do with finding bugs for the programmer.


Pavel




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