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Subject: Re: WCCC vs auto232

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 03:44:13 09/14/00

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On September 14, 2000 at 05:13:14, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On September 14, 2000 at 02:57:09, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2000 at 02:17:58, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>IMO every game played in WCCC events is worth at least 10 autoplayer
>>>games. Authors are present to solve any problem that might occur, no
>>>book randomness, no learning involved, book preparation should ensure
>>>that the author's program should play those lines the program likes
>>>best.
>
>
>>Barring some errant codes sent by Winboard [as is alledged for some
>>autoplayers], I disagree completely.
>
>Then have a look at the last 3-5 WCCC's. If you look at the rankings
>they don't match with for instance the SSDF list. Especially Shredder
>comes to mind.

That doesn't mean much. You can't expect the same results after 21 games (WCCC x
3) or after 500+ games. Not even similar, probably. The contrary would be a
surprise.

Enrique

>Ed
>
>
>>The books used are those created by the
>>authors.  The learning that goes on is the exact same learning that would go on
>>in normal play.  If your program does not learn and the other does, then their
>>program's edge is one that they have earned.  Special books cooked for a
>>tournament show the ability of the book preparation people and not the ability
>>of the engines.  After a while, killer likes will be debugged by learners and
>>won't get played anymore by the opposition.
>>
>>>The WCCC is playing games under the most optimal conditions for chess
>>>programs.
>>>
>>>Autoplayer tournaments are a whole different world.
>>>
>>>Both are valuable but IMO are not comparable.
>>
>>Unless bugs are present in the automatic tournament managers, the data is just
>>as good as any hand run tournaments.  Actually, since the errors introduced by
>>innacuracies of non-automatic move entry will cause the experiment to be hard to
>>reproduce, if anything such modes of play are inferior, from an experimental
>>standpoint.  If this element of randomness is needed to prevent similar losing
>>lines from being played repeatedly, then (again) it is a program flaw.
>>
>>I have seen no convincing arguments that autoplayer games are inferior except
>>that invalid command sequences are possibly generated by some autoplayers.  I
>>know of no complaints against Winboard in this regard.
>>
>>Furthermore, for Winboard programs (which is what I am testing) they are nearly
>>always going to be played using a Winboard interface.  If played on the net
>>using an automatic mode (as most seem to do) the results will much more closely
>>mirror what will be achieved in practice.



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