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Subject: Re: WCCC vs auto232

Author: Peter Berger

Date: 05:45:48 09/14/00

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On September 14, 2000 at 08:10:03, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:

>On September 14, 2000 at 07:55:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2000 at 06:44:13, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>
>>>On September 14, 2000 at 05:13:14, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 02:57:09, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 14, 2000 at 02:17:58, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>IMO every game played in WCCC events is worth at least 10 autoplayer
>>>>>>games. Authors are present to solve any problem that might occur, no
>>>>>>book randomness, no learning involved, book preparation should ensure
>>>>>>that the author's program should play those lines the program likes
>>>>>>best.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Barring some errant codes sent by Winboard [as is alledged for some
>>>>>autoplayers], I disagree completely.
>>>>
>>>>Then have a look at the last 3-5 WCCC's. If you look at the rankings
>>>>they don't match with for instance the SSDF list. Especially Shredder
>>>>comes to mind.
>>>
>>>That doesn't mean much. You can't expect the same results after 21 games (WCCC x
>>>3) or after 500+ games. Not even similar, probably. The contrary would be a
>>>surprise.
>>>
>>>Enrique
>>
>>The point is that you cannot expect the same result because the conditions are
>>different and not because the number of games.
>
>The number of games is essential if you care for accurate results.
>
>>Different opening preperation against different opponents is important in WCCC
>>when it cannot help in the ssdf.
>
>That's also an element to consider, and it makes the SSDF list even more
>reliable if what you care for is the engine.
>
>Enrique
>
>>Uri


I think the difference between SSDF and WCCC is just the same as between the
Olympic Games and the annual ranking lists most sports have .

Olympic Games and WCCC are about being there at THE moment , preparing for a
long time , tuning your body/engine to the extreme , doing everything to win the
event and at last you'll also need a little luck ( but I think this is a minor
thing ) .

If you get injured one week before the Olympic Games you are out for the next 4
years . If you in your last minutes efforts introduced a deadly bug in your
chess engine you are out too , same as when falling into an opening trap or your
machine being heavily overclocked produces unreliable results .

It's sports in fact .

And like in other big sports events it simply doesn't matter if you had been the
best 4 weeks later after some major improvements or if you had bad luck or
whatsoever .

In the SSDF programs are not run by the programmer or his/her operator and are
in no way specially tuned .

They play a huge number of games which sounds great but they simply don't answer
the same question a WCCC tries to answer .

Also I tend to take their results with a grain of salt simply because of some
things posted by the operators here .

Like : Junior 5 didn't work properly on one computer so I decided to let Junior
5 play on the other computer and use the Junior 6 book instead.

I won't continue with other things I remember because it doesn't matter ; in
general I think they do a very good job and do the best they can .

SSDF seems to give the more reliable results but still when it is about
competition I think WCCC is the real thing . A matter of taste .

And it seems some programs follow more the Olympic spirit . The luck Shredder
must have had winning without being the best grows and grows after every event
;)




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