Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Pulsar misses mate in 6 with Null Move. whats up?

Author: Heiner Marxen

Date: 06:21:50 09/24/00

Go up one level in this thread


On September 22, 2000 at 00:14:34, Mike Adams wrote:

>     Here is the position Pulsar is white in this fen string and to move.
>[D]1k4r1/ppp4R/3p4/4p3/q1n1P3/1NP5/P1P2rPP/1K2Q1R1 w - -
>     It is a forced mate in 6

Chest cannot find any mate in 6 here.

Assuming you mean black mates white, there also is no forced win for black.
Here is a summery of Chest's analysis:

After Ph2 - h3  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Ph2 - h4  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Pg2 - g3  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Pg2 - g4  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Pa2 - a3  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Nb3 - a5  ...  Solution (in 2 moves): Qa4 : c2
After Nb3 - a1  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Nb3 - c5  ...  Solution (in 2 moves): Qa4 : c2
After Nb3 - c1  ...  Solution (in 2 moves): Qa4 : c2
After Nb3 - d4  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Nb3 - d2  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - g7  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - f7  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - e7  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - d7  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 : c7  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - h8  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - h6  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - h5  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - h4  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rh7 - h3  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rg1 - h1  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Rg1 - f1  ...  Solution (in 3 moves): Qa4 - a3
After Qe1 - f1  ...  Solution (in 4 moves): Rf2 : f1
After Qe1 - d1  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Qe1 - c1  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Qe1 - e2  ...  Solution (in 5 moves): Rf2 : e2
After Qe1 - e3  ...  Solution (in 7 moves): Nc4 : e3
After Qe1 : f2  ...  Solution (in 3 moves): Qa4 - a3
After Qe1 - d2  ...  No solution in 7 moves.
After Kb1 - c1  ...  Solution (in 5 moves): Qa4 - a3
After Kb1 - a1  ...  No solution in 7 moves.

Could you please state the intended solution, so that I can see who is right?


>but to make it even easier for chess engines to
>see this position requires a queen sacrafice on move 3 to delay it to move 6
>otherwise its mate in 4. Pulsar should need depth 5 to see this.  It doesnt
>process that it is in check in qsearch so after 4 moves its checkmated but it
>can pass on moving in qsearch and be blind to the mate. My check extensions dont
>help eathier because they look at if position is in check before move and it is
>not in check or actually checkmated tell its move 5 for pulsar. Of course the
>game is over then.  Pulsar reported depth 6 in this position so it should have
>seen it but instead it grabbed the free rook and reported a winning position
>even though it had fallen into a forced mate in 6. So i did some tests.
>
>With Null move at R2 (depth-3) Pulsar plays Qxr untill depth 7 then it plays Kb1
>to Ka1.
>With Null move at R1 (depth-2) Pulsar plays Qxr untill depth 6 then it also
>plays Kb1 to Ka1.
>With Null move off Pulsar plays Qxr untill depth 5 as expected then on depth 5
>it plays Knight B3 to d4.
>
>     Whats the deal? Why is Pulsar missing a mate in 6 when it should see it in
>depth 5 and it gets depth 6.  Am i doing something wrong with Null Move?  Is
>there some trick to prevent this.  I would be interested in a explanation of how
>this can happen and if it happens often.
>                                               thanks Mike Adams

When trying to solve a mate you should avoid Null Move completely.
Others have explained the reasons already.

Heiner



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.