Author: Chessfun
Date: 16:21:24 09/26/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 26, 2000 at 19:14:47, Chessfun wrote: >On September 26, 2000 at 19:05:50, Chessfun wrote: > >>On September 26, 2000 at 18:53:45, Chessfun wrote: >> >>>On September 26, 2000 at 16:51:33, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>[D]3r3k/p7/1p6/2p2Q1p/2P1R3/2P5/P2KP3/6q1 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Hiarcs played Kc2 and had to resign some moves later because the queen cannot be >>>>saved[the game continued Kc2 Qd1+ Kb2 Rd2+ Ka3 Qc1+ Ka4 b5+ cxb5 Qc2+ Ka5 Qxc3+ >>>>and white resigned because of the line Ka6 Rd6+ Kb7 Qg7+ Kb8(forced because Kc8 >>>>is leading to mate) Rd8+]. >>>> >>>>How much time do programs need to avoid this tactical error?(some program like >>>>hiarcs can play Rd4 after a short time but later change their mind to Kc2 so the >>>>right test is to give them at least some minutes) >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>>Nice job noticing that move Uri !!. >>>This is from game 1 of my post yesterday. >>>Hiarcs 7.32 v Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta. >>>A good test position so it would seem. >>>I expect quite a few programs will have a problem with this. >>> >>>Hiarcs 7.32 48 mb for some reason seems to like Kc2 even to >>>depth 12/30 which is where I stopped it, after a big fail. >>>Though even now it's still thinking after 10 mins and hasn't >>>posted another line yet. >>> >>>Even Fritz 6a likes Kc2 for a while even Qd5?. Seems F6a has as many >>>problems with this as Hiarcs does. >>> >>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta selects it for about 3 secs between depths 10-11. >>>Though Tiger can clearly see that Rd4 leaves it still in the game. >>> >>>Following are; >>>Hiarcs 7.32 >>>F6a >>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta >>> >>>HIARCS 7.32 Cel 433, 48 Mb hash. >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ 51.Ka5 Qxc3+ 52.Ka6 >>>Rd6+ 53.Kb7 Qg7+ 54.Kc8 Qg8+ 55.Kb7 Rb6+ 56.Kc7 Qh7+ 57.Qxh7+ Kxh7 58.Re7+ Kh8 >>> µ (-1.06) Depth: 11/30 00:02:35 8153kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ >>> µ (-1.33) Depth: 12/30 00:03:10 10219kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ 51.Ka5 Qxc3+ 52.Ka6 >>>Rd6+ 53.Kb7 Qg7+ 54.Kc8 Qg8+ 55.Kb7 Rb6+ 56.Kc7 Qb8+ 57.Kd7 Qd6+ 58.Ke8 Rb8+ >>>59.Qc8 Rxc8+ 60.Kf7 >>> -+ (-12.40) Depth: 12/30 00:05:28 20478kN >>> >>>Analysis by Fritz 6: >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 >>> -+ (-1.75) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 >>> -+ (-1.75) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >>>46.Rd4 >>> -+ (-1.72) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 >>> -+ (-1.41) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 1kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 3kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 6kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 8/21 00:00:00 11kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 28kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 10/27 00:00:01 237kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ Qg7 49.Qxd8 dxc3+ 50.Kc2 Kh6 >>> -+ (-1.66) Depth: 11/29 00:00:03 876kN >>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ Qg7 49.Qxd8 dxc3+ 50.Kc2 Kh6 >>> -+ (-1.53) Depth: 12/31 00:00:08 2496kN >>>46.Kc2 >>> -+ (-1.50) Depth: 12/31 00:00:12 3433kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ >>> ³ (-0.53) Depth: 12/36 00:00:23 6400kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ >>> ³ (-0.62) Depth: 13/34 00:00:33 9087kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ >>> µ (-0.91) Depth: 14/36 00:01:00 16487kN >>>46.Kc2-- >>> µ (-1.22) Depth: 15/37 00:01:15 20885kN >>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ >>> -+ (-8.75) Depth: 15/42 00:01:29 25534kN >>>46.Qd5 >>> -+ (-8.72) Depth: 15/42 00:01:49 31645kN >>>46.Qd5 Rxd5+ 47.cxd5 Qg5+ 48.Re3 Qxd5+ 49.Ke1 Qxa2 50.Rh3 Qd5 >>> -+ (-7.00) Depth: 15/42 00:06:46 112162kN >>> >>> >>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta; Cel 433, 48 Mb hash. >>>; 00:00:00.1 46. Score: -2.16 depth: 8 Rd4 Rxd4+ cxd4 Qxd4+ Ke1 Qc3+ >>>Kf2 Qxc4 Qxh5+ Kg7 Qg5+ Kf7 a3 >>>; 00:00:00.3 46. Score: -1.92 depth: 8 Rd4 Rxd4+ cxd4 Qxd4+ Ke1 Qc3+ >>>Kf2 Qxc4 Qxh5+ Kg7 Qg5+ Kf7 Qf5+ Ke7 Qh7+ Qf7+ >>>; 00:00:03.7 46. Score: -2.26 depth: 9 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kh6 c5 bxc5 >>>; 00:00:05.2 46. Score: -2.12 depth: 10 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kh6 e4 Qg3+ Ke2 Qg2+ Ke3 >>>; 00:00:21.8 46. Score: -2.04 depth: 10 Kc2 Qd1+ Kb2 Rd2+ Ka3 Qc1+ >>>Ka4 b5+ cxb5 Qc2+ Ka5 Qxc3+ Ka6 Rd6+ Kb7 Qg7+ Kc8 >>>; 00:00:25.5 46. Score: -2.04 depth: 11 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kh6 e4 Qg3+ Kc2 Qe5 Qa8 >>>; 00:00:34.8 46. Score: -2.06 depth: 12 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kh6 e4 Qg3+ Kc2 Qe5 Qa8 Qg7 >>>; 00:01:08.9 46. Score: -1.88 depth: 13 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kh6 Qd5 h4 c5 bxc5 Qxc5 a6 e4 >>>; 00:02:01.3 46. Score: -1.88 depth: 14 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kg6 a4 Qe5 Qg8+ Kh6 Qd8 Qg3+ e3 Qe5 >>>; 00:07:14.9 46. Score: -1.80 depth: 15 Rd4 cxd4 Qf6+ Kh7 Qe7+ Qg7 >>>Qxd8 dxc3+ Kd3 Kg6 a4 Qe5 Qa8 Qe7 e4 Qf6 Qxa7 Qf3+ >>> >>>; Analysis completed >>> >>> >>>Sarah. >> >>This is what Junior 6a makes of it; >> >>Analysis by Junior 6a >> >>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Kb3 >> µ (-1.19) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb1+ 6.Kc6 Rxe2 7.Qxh5+ >> -+ (-1.89) Depth: 6 00:00:00 3kN >>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kd3 Qg3+ 6.e3 >> -+ (-1.81) Depth: 6 00:00:00 9kN >>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Qe5 6.Qd3+ Kg7 7.Qxc3 Qxe2+ >> -+ (-1.77) Depth: 9 00:00:00 73kN >>1.Kc2! >> -+ (-1.51) Depth: 9 00:00:00 133kN >>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Rb2+ 6.Kc6 Qh1 7.Qf8+ Kh7 >>8.Qf7+ Kh6 >> µ (-1.19) Depth: 9 00:00:00 176kN >>1.Kc2! >> µ (-0.89) Depth: 12 00:00:02 802kN >>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Rxa2+ 6.Kb3 Qc2+ 7.Kc4 Ra4+ >>8.Kd5 Qxe4+ 9.Qxe4 Rxe4 10.Kxe4 >> ³ (-0.68) Depth: 12 00:00:04 1491kN >>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+ >>8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kb8 Rd8+ 10.Qc8 >> -+ (-9.41) Depth: 15 00:00:15 6088kN >>1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 Qxc4 4.Qxh5+ Kg7 5.Qe5+ Kg6 6.Qd6+ Kf5 7.Qf8+ Ke5 >>8.Qg7+ Kd6 9.Qxa7 Qc1+ >> µ (-0.81) Depth: 15 00:01:17 31481kN, tb=128 >>1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 h4 4.Qf8+ Kh7 5.Qf7+ Kh6 6.Qxa7 Qf6 7.Qb7 h3 >>8.Qc7 Qc3+ 9.Kf2 Kg5 10.Qh2 >> µ (-0.76) Depth: 17 00:04:53 119048kN, tb=1773 >> >>Sarah. > > >Originally I loaded the position to F6a from the pgn. (The above evals) >Pasting the FEN I get; > >Analysis by Fritz 6: >1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb2+ > -+ (-1.87) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 5kN >1.Rd4! > -+ (-1.84) Depth: 6/18 00:00:00 11kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6 > -+ (-1.44) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 16kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6 > -+ (-1.44) Depth: 7/21 00:00:00 33kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd3+ Qxd3+ > -+ (-1.59) Depth: 8/24 00:00:00 90kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd3+ Qxd3+ > -+ (-1.75) Depth: 9/26 00:00:01 256kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 > -+ (-1.69) Depth: 10/28 00:00:02 590kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 > -+ (-1.66) Depth: 11/30 00:00:04 1246kN >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 > -+ (-1.53) Depth: 12/32 00:00:11 3333kN >1.Kc2 > -+ (-1.50) Depth: 12/32 00:00:14 4192kN >1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ > ³ (-0.53) Depth: 12/34 00:00:24 6981kN >1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ > ³ (-0.62) Depth: 13/36 00:00:34 9405kN >1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ > µ (-0.91) Depth: 14/36 00:00:59 16126kN >1.Kc2-- > µ (-1.22) Depth: 15/35 00:01:15 20888kN, tb=4 >1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ > -+ (-8.75) Depth: 15/39 00:01:28 25305kN, tb=4 >1.Rd4 > -+ (-8.72) Depth: 15/39 00:01:49 31669kN, tb=4 >1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kd3 Qg3+ > -+ (-1.44) Depth: 15/40 00:07:23 129680kN, tb=27 > >(Bird, Scarb 26.09.2000) This is the CB version Crafty 17-11 running in F6. Crafty has problems with this also. Analysis by Crafty 17.11: 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Kb3 Qc2+ -+ (-1.50) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb2+ -+ (-2.16) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 h4 4.Qf7 -+ (-2.03) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kc2 dxc3 -+ (-2.78) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 1.Kc2 -+ (-2.38) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb1+ 6.Kc6 Kg7 -+ (-1.65) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Kg7 6.Re7+ Kh6 7.Qh7+ -+ (-1.49) Depth: 6/19 00:00:01 62kN 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.Ka5 Qxc3+ 6.Ka6 Qa3+ 7.Kb7 Qxa2 8.Qxh5+ -+ (-2.02) Depth: 7/22 00:00:01 151kN 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxe4 7.Qxh5+ Qh7 8.Qe5+ Qg7 9.Qxc5 Rxe2 -+ (-2.61) Depth: 8/24 00:00:02 324kN 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6 6.Qxa7 -+ (-2.49) Depth: 8/24 00:00:02 432kN 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qh4 Qe5 -+ (-2.42) Depth: 9/26 00:00:03 610kN 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.c5 bxc5 7.e4 -+ (-2.26) Depth: 10/26 00:00:05 1013kN 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qd5 Qg5 7.Qd4 Qg3 -+ (-2.40) Depth: 11/28 00:00:09 1879kN 1.Kc2 -+ (-2.00) Depth: 11/28 00:00:33 8295kN 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Rxa2+ 6.Kb3 Qb1+ 7.Kc4 Qxe4+ 8.Qxe4 Ra4+ 9.Kd5 Rxe4 10.Kxe4 Kg7 11.e3 h4 ³ (-0.42) Depth: 11/28 00:02:08 30451kN 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+ 8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kc8 Qg8+ 10.Kb7 Rb6+ 11.Kc7 Qg7+ 12.Kc8 Qb7+ 13.Kd8 Rd6+ 14.Ke8 Qxb5+ -+ (-1.65) Depth: 12/36 00:02:48 39786kN 1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+ 8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kb8 Rd8+ 10.Qc8 Rxc8+ 11.Kxc8 Qg8+ 12.Kb7 Qh7+ 13.Ka8 Qxe4+ 14.Kxa7 Qa4+ 15.Kb6 c4 -+ (-14.56) Depth: 13/36 00:03:31 51209kN 1.Rd4 -+ (-14.16) Depth: 13/36 00:03:36 52321kN 1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qd5 Qf6 7.e4 Kg6 8.e5 Qf7 -+ (-1.99) Depth: 13/36 00:04:17 61182kN (Bird, Scarb 26.09.2000)
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