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Subject: Re: a test position from hiarcs-tiger (here's Crafty 17-11)

Author: Chessfun

Date: 16:21:24 09/26/00

Go up one level in this thread


On September 26, 2000 at 19:14:47, Chessfun wrote:

>On September 26, 2000 at 19:05:50, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On September 26, 2000 at 18:53:45, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On September 26, 2000 at 16:51:33, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>[D]3r3k/p7/1p6/2p2Q1p/2P1R3/2P5/P2KP3/6q1 w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>Hiarcs played Kc2 and had to resign some moves later because the queen cannot be
>>>>saved[the game continued Kc2 Qd1+ Kb2 Rd2+ Ka3 Qc1+ Ka4 b5+ cxb5 Qc2+ Ka5 Qxc3+
>>>>and white resigned because of the line Ka6 Rd6+ Kb7 Qg7+ Kb8(forced because Kc8
>>>>is leading to mate) Rd8+].
>>>>
>>>>How much time do programs need to avoid this tactical error?(some program like
>>>>hiarcs can play Rd4 after a short time but later change their mind to Kc2 so the
>>>>right test is to give them at least some minutes)
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Nice job noticing that move Uri !!.
>>>This is from game 1 of my post yesterday.
>>>Hiarcs 7.32 v Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta.
>>>A good test position so it would seem.
>>>I expect quite a few programs will have a problem with this.
>>>
>>>Hiarcs 7.32 48 mb for some reason seems to like Kc2 even to
>>>depth 12/30 which is where I stopped it, after a big fail.
>>>Though even now it's still thinking after 10 mins and hasn't
>>>posted another line yet.
>>>
>>>Even Fritz 6a likes Kc2 for a while even Qd5?. Seems F6a has as many
>>>problems with this as Hiarcs does.
>>>
>>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta selects it for about 3 secs between depths 10-11.
>>>Though Tiger can clearly see that Rd4 leaves it still in the game.
>>>
>>>Following are;
>>>Hiarcs 7.32
>>>F6a
>>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta
>>>
>>>HIARCS 7.32 Cel 433, 48 Mb hash.
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ 51.Ka5 Qxc3+ 52.Ka6
>>>Rd6+ 53.Kb7 Qg7+ 54.Kc8 Qg8+ 55.Kb7 Rb6+ 56.Kc7 Qh7+ 57.Qxh7+ Kxh7 58.Re7+ Kh8
>>>  µ  (-1.06)   Depth: 11/30   00:02:35  8153kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+
>>>  µ  (-1.33)   Depth: 12/30   00:03:10  10219kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+ 51.Ka5 Qxc3+ 52.Ka6
>>>Rd6+ 53.Kb7 Qg7+ 54.Kc8 Qg8+ 55.Kb7 Rb6+ 56.Kc7 Qb8+ 57.Kd7 Qd6+ 58.Ke8 Rb8+
>>>59.Qc8 Rxc8+ 60.Kf7
>>>  -+  (-12.40)   Depth: 12/30   00:05:28  20478kN
>>>
>>>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2
>>>  -+  (-1.75)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3
>>>  -+  (-1.75)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>>>46.Rd4
>>>  -+  (-1.72)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7
>>>  -+  (-1.41)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 4/13   00:00:00
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 5/13   00:00:00  1kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  3kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  6kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  11kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 9/25   00:00:00  28kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+
>>>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 10/27   00:00:01  237kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ Qg7 49.Qxd8 dxc3+ 50.Kc2 Kh6
>>>  -+  (-1.66)   Depth: 11/29   00:00:03  876kN
>>>46.Rd4 cxd4 47.Qf6+ Kh7 48.Qe7+ Qg7 49.Qxd8 dxc3+ 50.Kc2 Kh6
>>>  -+  (-1.53)   Depth: 12/31   00:00:08  2496kN
>>>46.Kc2
>>>  -+  (-1.50)   Depth: 12/31   00:00:12  3433kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+
>>>  ³  (-0.53)   Depth: 12/36   00:00:23  6400kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+
>>>  ³  (-0.62)   Depth: 13/34   00:00:33  9087kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+
>>>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 14/36   00:01:00  16487kN
>>>46.Kc2--
>>>  µ  (-1.22)   Depth: 15/37   00:01:15  20885kN
>>>46.Kc2 Qd1+ 47.Kb2 Rd2+ 48.Ka3 Qc1+ 49.Ka4 b5+ 50.cxb5 Qc2+
>>>  -+  (-8.75)   Depth: 15/42   00:01:29  25534kN
>>>46.Qd5
>>>  -+  (-8.72)   Depth: 15/42   00:01:49  31645kN
>>>46.Qd5 Rxd5+ 47.cxd5 Qg5+ 48.Re3 Qxd5+ 49.Ke1 Qxa2 50.Rh3 Qd5
>>>  -+  (-7.00)   Depth: 15/42   00:06:46  112162kN
>>>
>>>
>>>Chess Tiger 12.92 Beta; Cel 433, 48 Mb hash.
>>>; 00:00:00.1  46.   Score: -2.16   depth: 8 Rd4  Rxd4+  cxd4  Qxd4+  Ke1  Qc3+
>>>Kf2  Qxc4  Qxh5+  Kg7  Qg5+  Kf7  a3
>>>; 00:00:00.3  46.   Score: -1.92   depth: 8 Rd4  Rxd4+  cxd4  Qxd4+  Ke1  Qc3+
>>>Kf2  Qxc4  Qxh5+  Kg7  Qg5+  Kf7  Qf5+  Ke7  Qh7+  Qf7+
>>>; 00:00:03.7  46.   Score: -2.26   depth: 9 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kh6  c5  bxc5
>>>; 00:00:05.2  46.   Score: -2.12   depth: 10 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kh6  e4  Qg3+  Ke2  Qg2+  Ke3
>>>; 00:00:21.8  46.   Score: -2.04   depth: 10 Kc2  Qd1+  Kb2  Rd2+  Ka3  Qc1+
>>>Ka4  b5+  cxb5  Qc2+  Ka5  Qxc3+  Ka6  Rd6+  Kb7  Qg7+  Kc8
>>>; 00:00:25.5  46.   Score: -2.04   depth: 11 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kh6  e4  Qg3+  Kc2  Qe5  Qa8
>>>; 00:00:34.8  46.   Score: -2.06   depth: 12 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kh6  e4  Qg3+  Kc2  Qe5  Qa8  Qg7
>>>; 00:01:08.9  46.   Score: -1.88   depth: 13 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kh6  Qd5  h4  c5  bxc5  Qxc5  a6  e4
>>>; 00:02:01.3  46.   Score: -1.88   depth: 14 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kg6  a4  Qe5  Qg8+  Kh6  Qd8  Qg3+  e3  Qe5
>>>; 00:07:14.9  46.   Score: -1.80   depth: 15 Rd4  cxd4  Qf6+  Kh7  Qe7+  Qg7
>>>Qxd8  dxc3+  Kd3  Kg6  a4  Qe5  Qa8  Qe7  e4  Qf6  Qxa7  Qf3+
>>>
>>>; Analysis completed
>>>
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>>
>>This is what Junior 6a makes of it;
>>
>>Analysis by Junior 6a
>>
>>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Kb3
>>  µ  (-1.19)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb1+ 6.Kc6 Rxe2 7.Qxh5+
>>  -+  (-1.89)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  3kN
>>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kd3 Qg3+ 6.e3
>>  -+  (-1.81)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  9kN
>>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Qe5 6.Qd3+ Kg7 7.Qxc3 Qxe2+
>>  -+  (-1.77)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  73kN
>>1.Kc2!
>>  -+  (-1.51)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  133kN
>>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Rb2+ 6.Kc6 Qh1 7.Qf8+ Kh7
>>8.Qf7+ Kh6
>>  µ  (-1.19)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  176kN
>>1.Kc2!
>>  µ  (-0.89)   Depth: 12   00:00:02  802kN
>>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Rxa2+ 6.Kb3 Qc2+ 7.Kc4 Ra4+
>>8.Kd5 Qxe4+ 9.Qxe4 Rxe4 10.Kxe4
>>  ³  (-0.68)   Depth: 12   00:00:04  1491kN
>>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+
>>8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kb8 Rd8+ 10.Qc8
>>  -+  (-9.41)   Depth: 15   00:00:15  6088kN
>>1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 Qxc4 4.Qxh5+ Kg7 5.Qe5+ Kg6 6.Qd6+ Kf5 7.Qf8+ Ke5
>>8.Qg7+ Kd6 9.Qxa7 Qc1+
>>  µ  (-0.81)   Depth: 15   00:01:17  31481kN, tb=128
>>1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 h4 4.Qf8+ Kh7 5.Qf7+ Kh6 6.Qxa7 Qf6 7.Qb7 h3
>>8.Qc7 Qc3+ 9.Kf2 Kg5 10.Qh2
>>  µ  (-0.76)   Depth: 17   00:04:53  119048kN, tb=1773
>>
>>Sarah.
>
>
>Originally I loaded the position to F6a from the pgn. (The above evals)
>Pasting the FEN I get;
>
>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb2+
>  -+  (-1.87)   Depth: 6/17   00:00:00  5kN
>1.Rd4!
>  -+  (-1.84)   Depth: 6/18   00:00:00  11kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 6/19   00:00:00  16kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:00  33kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd3+ Qxd3+
>  -+  (-1.59)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:00  90kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd3+ Qxd3+
>  -+  (-1.75)   Depth: 9/26   00:00:01  256kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6
>  -+  (-1.69)   Depth: 10/28   00:00:02  590kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6
>  -+  (-1.66)   Depth: 11/30   00:00:04  1246kN
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6
>  -+  (-1.53)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:11  3333kN
>1.Kc2
>  -+  (-1.50)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:14  4192kN
>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+
>  ³  (-0.53)   Depth: 12/34   00:00:24  6981kN
>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+
>  ³  (-0.62)   Depth: 13/36   00:00:34  9405kN
>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+
>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 14/36   00:00:59  16126kN
>1.Kc2--
>  µ  (-1.22)   Depth: 15/35   00:01:15  20888kN, tb=4
>1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+
>  -+  (-8.75)   Depth: 15/39   00:01:28  25305kN, tb=4
>1.Rd4
>  -+  (-8.72)   Depth: 15/39   00:01:49  31669kN, tb=4
>1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kd3 Qg3+
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 15/40   00:07:23  129680kN, tb=27
>
>(Bird, Scarb 26.09.2000)


This is the CB version Crafty 17-11 running in F6.
Crafty has problems with this also.

Analysis by Crafty 17.11:
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Kb3 Qc2+
  -+  (-1.50)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb2+
  -+  (-2.16)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
1.Rd4 Rxd4+ 2.cxd4 Qxd4+ 3.Ke1 h4 4.Qf7
  -+  (-2.03)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kc2 dxc3
  -+  (-2.78)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00
1.Kc2
  -+  (-2.38)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Qb1+ 6.Kc6 Kg7
  -+  (-1.65)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 Rxa2+ 5.Kb5 Kg7 6.Re7+ Kh6 7.Qh7+
  -+  (-1.49)   Depth: 6/19   00:00:01  62kN
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.Ka5 Qxc3+ 6.Ka6 Qa3+ 7.Kb7 Qxa2
8.Qxh5+
  -+  (-2.02)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:01  151kN
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxe4 7.Qxh5+ Qh7
8.Qe5+ Qg7 9.Qxc5 Rxe2
  -+  (-2.61)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:02  324kN
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qxd8 Qe3+ 4.Kd1 dxc3 5.Qd7+ Kg6 6.Qxa7
  -+  (-2.49)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:02  432kN
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qh4 Qe5
  -+  (-2.42)   Depth: 9/26   00:00:03  610kN
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.c5 bxc5 7.e4
  -+  (-2.26)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:05  1013kN
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qd5 Qg5 7.Qd4 Qg3
  -+  (-2.40)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:09  1879kN
1.Kc2
  -+  (-2.00)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:33  8295kN
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Rxa2+ 6.Kb3 Qb1+ 7.Kc4 Qxe4+
8.Qxe4 Ra4+ 9.Kd5 Rxe4 10.Kxe4 Kg7 11.e3 h4
  ³  (-0.42)   Depth: 11/28   00:02:08  30451kN
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+
8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kc8 Qg8+ 10.Kb7 Rb6+ 11.Kc7 Qg7+ 12.Kc8 Qb7+ 13.Kd8 Rd6+ 14.Ke8
Qxb5+
  -+  (-1.65)   Depth: 12/36   00:02:48  39786kN
1.Kc2 Qd1+ 2.Kb2 Rd2+ 3.Ka3 Qc1+ 4.Ka4 b5+ 5.cxb5 Qc2+ 6.Ka5 Qxc3+ 7.Ka6 Rd6+
8.Kb7 Qg7+ 9.Kb8 Rd8+ 10.Qc8 Rxc8+ 11.Kxc8 Qg8+ 12.Kb7 Qh7+ 13.Ka8 Qxe4+ 14.Kxa7
Qa4+ 15.Kb6 c4
  -+  (-14.56)   Depth: 13/36   00:03:31  51209kN
1.Rd4
  -+  (-14.16)   Depth: 13/36   00:03:36  52321kN
1.Rd4 cxd4 2.Qf6+ Kh7 3.Qe7+ Qg7 4.Qxd8 dxc3+ 5.Kc2 Kh6 6.Qd5 Qf6 7.e4 Kg6 8.e5
Qf7
  -+  (-1.99)   Depth: 13/36   00:04:17  61182kN

(Bird, Scarb 26.09.2000)





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